Episode 5: The South Tumpts Brian Over

January 23rd, 2019
Hosted by Brian Birnbaum
Guests: Myriah Harrison, Drew Wilkerson, Sam Cooper, Marcus Fisher, and Gangie
Produced by Katie Rainey
Transcripts by Jonathan Kay

It’s our third installment of "Animals Hit the Road" and we’re still down here in Little Rock, Arkansas, talking to local artists about uplifting the arts community. In this episode, Brian hosts three conversations with: Myriah Harrison and Drew Wilkerson; Sam Cooper and Marcus Fisher; and the one and only, Gangie. Through a collage of these conversations, we discuss their experiences living in Arkansas, and how they’ve come to their respective artistic mediums and passions. All the while, Brian faces a neuronal crisis of sorts, brought on by that misnomer down here known as “southern hospitality”.

>> Narration: Welcome to the Animal Riot Hour brought to you by Animal Riot, a literary press for "books that matter". This marks the third episode of "Animals Hit the Road" during which we will be touring some cities, talking to some interesting people about some interesting things.

We’re still down here in Little Rock, Arkansas, and because of that, we’ll be doing something a little different this episode. Little Rock is special to us here at Animal Riot. It’s where our producers - Katie Rainey, who, unbelievably, is just one person - hail from. Along with her brother Roy and her sister Lizzie, whom you met last episode, Katie was exposed to art throughout her childhood here in Little Rock. But come time to start her career, Little Rock’s limitations instilled in her a desire to take her talents to New York. How many cities watch their brightest stars gravitate toward the naked singularity that is New York - that cosmic force of mass and mystery? From this experience, and the experience of countless others that Katie has encountered across her young career, was born a mission: to uplift the arts and arts communities in cities like Little Rock’s, and all the smaller cities and towns where artists can start to feel stuck, yet scared of that cosmic mass to the Northeast.

Lucky for Katie, that’s part of our goal here at Animal Riot: not only to uplift writers and their communities, but also to remember why we fell in love with literature in the first place.

So, this episode features five artists spread over three different locations here in Little Rock. Each plies their own craft, each with their own story of what brought them or keeps them here. Yet what brazes them all are their strong views on Little Rock’s art and literature scene, particularly what it needs to grow and thrive.

>> Brian: Right now we’re here with none other than Gangie, Katie's grandmother who most shaped... Well Katie, I guess, what does she most shape about you? Everything?

>> Katie: Hmmmmm, my face (Gangie laughs)

>> Brian: Your face? 25 percent, your face.

>> Katie: That's right (laughter)

>> Brian: Or more

>> Katie: This woman shaped... I mean she's the reason I write. When I was 6 she gave me my first journal and I have been writing in journals ever since. I now have a giant trunk full of lovely, intellectual writings, I'm sure (laughs)

>> Brian: Well I think it culminated in the entry in which you wrote "the world is like a cigarette". That was the highlight

>> Katie: Yeah Gangie, I gave him my high school journals and he flipped open to one of them. Or I gave him one of my high school journals and he flipped open and the first thing he saw was "the world is like a cigarette". (laughter)

>> Gangie: (laughs) What did this lead to?

>> Brian: Yeah, I'm not actually sure yet what it means

>> Katie: You didn't finish the entry?

>> Brian: I did but I don't think I remember...

>> Katie: I don't remember

>> Brian: I think you just left it like that and you just moved on and it was like we're supposed to understand that

>> Katie: Clearly I was just brilliant (laughter). So since I'm actually on this podcast... I think this is my first time on the actual podcast. Gangie, normally I produce it from behind the scenes

>> Brian: Finally the women outnumber the men. I think this is the first time.

>> Gangie: That's good. As it should be

>> Katie: I'm the Wizard of Oz coming out from behind the curtain right now

>> Brian: Yeah, that's also very true.

>> Katie: So, mysterious Gangie lady, what is your real name?

>> Gangie: My whole name is Suzzane, S-U-Z-Z-A-N-E.

>> Katie: Get it wrong and she'll beat you

>> Gangie: Middle initial 'T' which stands for Tarentski. Last name Watts, W-A-T-T-S.

>> Narration: In case you didn’t catch it, Suzzane T. Watts - nom de guerre Gangie - is Katie’s grandmother. Gangie serves as her granddaughter’s muse, the doyen after which she models her artistic endeavors. But back in the day, Gangie was a talented dancer in her own right, and she’s still a fervent visual artist. She’s danced all over, with companies as prestigious as Jacob’s Pillow, the Metropolitan Opera, and dancers like Maria Tall Chief, Madame Krask, and her beloved mentor June Runyon.

>> Gangie: I didn't start dancing until I was a sophomore in high school...

>> Katie: Isn't that incredible?

>> Brian: That's very late, yeah.

>> Gangie: I loved it so much

>> Brian: And how did you find out about it?

>> Gangie: A girl that was a year ahead of me in class at Holy Family High School where I went to high school. She took ballet just because she wanted the pretty pink toe shoes (laughs). She was the cutest little girl you have ever seen but couldn't dance very good

>> Katie: ...but not a very good dancer (laughter). You should see Gangie's feet. If you see her feet then you know why she's a dancer.

>> Brian: Were they all gnarled up or something?

>> Katie: No, she's got an arch... ok, see my foot? That's pretty flat. I danced for awhile, and Gangie wanted me to dance (laughs) but I was just never going to be a dancer. But Gangie's feet are like this (curves foot)

>> Brian: Wow

>> Katie: You could practically bend them in half

>> Gangie: And the front of my foot and the back of my foot when I walk in the sand, it's two completely different...

>> Katie: Spots. It doesn't look like it's a whole foot

>> Gangie: Spots. They don't connect

>> Brian: Ah, there's two indentations. Yeah

>> Narration: We also spoke with Myriah Harrison & Drew Wilkerson, two of Katie’s close friends since high school and both active members of Little Rock’s arts and culture scene.

>> Brian: Right now we’re here with Myriah and Drew. Drew who I met two days go when I was barely conscious

>> Drew: Yeah

>> Brian: Because I had gotten too fucked up the night before

>> Drew: You did pretty good though.

>> Brian: Yeah. I guess I made it until 9:15. But you guys introduce yourselves and then you can comment on my ability to withstand marijuana overdoses.

>> Drew: Yeah, it's a real thing (laughter)

>> Narration: Myriah Harrison is an anthropologist, crafter-slash-creator, and camel whisperer. She graduated with a B.A. in Anthropology and a minor in Middle Eastern Studies from the University of Arkansas at Little Rock in the Fall of 2016. In addition to her excavation trips to Oman and her ability to paint and craft weird works of art, she also has the cutest pup this side of the Mississippi - River Song.

>> Brian: So Myriah you do archaeology

>> Myriah: Yeah, I do.

>> Brian: Is that your art form?

>> Myriah: Hmmm, it's a passion. I do other types of art form. I paint, I craft, I make baskets. I don't know, when I get stressed out mostly and annoyed with people, I start painting. So like a lot

>> Brian: You got that Gangie style

>> Myriah: Yeah

>> Narration: Drew, on the other hand, is a local bartender and musician who has played in a ton of bands around the city. Drew is currently in a band that’s touring around the state.

>> Brian: I am, I’m in a band called Listen Sister. We are working on finishing our second album and we have a habit of it taking a year and half to finish an album.

>> Narration: Rounding out this episode’s triumvirate of conversations are Sam Cooper and Marcus Fisher. Though Sam is technically Katie’s cousin, the two were raised practically as siblings and act like it too. Marcus is a local tattoo artist, musician, painter, and transplant from our home base: New York City. Sam and Marcus are roommates in a house perhaps 50 paces from Gangie’s.

>> Brian: Welcome, so you guys want to introduce yourselves

>> Marcus: Yeah, so Marcus Fisher is sitting to my left and my name is Sam Cooper

>> Brian: Yeah, let's do that. You introduce Marcus and then Marcus, you introduce Sam.

>> Marcus: Yeah, ok. Marcus Fisher everybody (applauses and cheers)

>> Narration: Though we’re cutting these three sessions into a single collage of an episode, our producers didn’t feel that this excused me from offering and participating in a unique challenge during each session

>> Brian: I will talk about the challenge which is very simple right now. We call it the Hour's Brand of Fuckery, is what we call our challenges. And it's brought to you by eggnog, which I don't think I have ever had until I came here.

>> Gangie: It's good stuff, isn't it?

>> Brian: Yeah, it's great. I think the Jews should get on the bandwagon

>> Gangie: Yes (laughter)

>> Brian: Anyway, the challenge is to ingest all of this eggnog that we have before us without getting too inebriated for our Christmas Eve company. That's it (laughter)

>> Gangie: And tell them what the brand is. Isn't it...

>> Katie: Pennsylvania Dutch?

>> Gangie: Yeah, Pennsylvania Dutch.

>> Brian: Great, let's plug them and now we can demand monies from them (laughter)

>> Myriah: You know, our challenge could be how many times we say 'absolutely'.

>> Brian: Absolutely.

>> Drew: I say it abso-fuck-a-lutely

>> Myriah: Absolutely.

>> Brian: We call the challenge This Hour's Brand of Fuckery.

>> Marcus: Ok

>> Brian: And the challenge is for me and Marcus... Marcus and I?

>> Marcus: Yes

>> Brian: Marcus and I to finish a glass of wine every 10 minutes. So we have 7 minutes left until the next one, so keep up

>> Marcus: Ohhh

>> Brian: And for Sam to be a bitch and keep up

>> Sam: Uhhhh, I have to cook tonight. So the dinner's got to get done (laughter)

>> Brian: Now to be fair, Sam was quite toasted last night

>> Sam: (laughs) Yes indeed. Yes I was

>> Marcus: He's got a lot to make up for it.

>> Narration: As it turns out, this episode’s three challenges paled in comparison to what I now realize is an insidious misnomer: southern hospitality. Cut off those last three letters and the phrase better aligns with what I needed the morning after our first visit with Sam and Marcus, earlier this week.

>> Brian: Should we talk about what you did to me the other night? Like right now? Like right away? (laughter)

>> Sam: Sure. And I warned you. I should have known better

>> Brian: So basically, let me give some precedent. I was at Katie's aunt Julie's... oh well, Sam's mother. I should know that (laughter). Without Sam. I was at your mom's house dude

>> Sam: Yeah (laughter) I approve.

>> Brian: And we were just smoking cigarettes and getting hammered. And Daryl was coming out with his vape and we were smoking bowls on the deck. And then we go over to yours after and I'm already slipping in terms of memories being formed at that point (laughter)

>> Sam: And I was like "hey I have these lovely treats" and uh...

>> Brian: And everyone else said no and everyone else said no which of course makes me say yes.

>> Sam: And I was like "hey, would you like one of these"...

>> Brian: Non drug filled treats (laughter)

>> Sam: Canni-treats

>> Brian: Basically I had too much sugar. (laughter)

>> Sam: Yeah

>> Brian: And I blacked out for 12 hours after (laugh)

>> Sam: I was like, "well you might want to eat half of it", you know, trying to rationalize with the very rational Brian at that point.

>> Brian: Uh huh. Uh huh

>> Sam: And he said "Fuck it, I'm going to eat it all right now". I'm pretty sure that's the quote

>> Brian: As I do.

>> Sam: So I do take partial blame for that

>> Brian: Yeah, I don't think you should

>> Marcus: If you're having a good time, man, you have to dive in. The whole, damn thing

>> Brian: Yeah. But anyways, I just wanted that on record because that was probably the most lasting memory / non-memory I'll have of Arkansas (laughter)

>> Sam: Absolutely

>> Marcus: That's a good memory to take home

>> Brian: I woke up with my world absolutely changed for good (laughter)

>> Sam: Were you feeling ok the next day?

>> Brian: Oh, definitely not. Definitely not. Just, oh my god. I don't know

>> Marcus: Did you get any sleep?

>> Brian: I got too much sleep. (laughter)

>> Sam: 12 hours

>> Brian: 12-13 hours or something. It was like I hadn't slept. It was like I just walked into a fugue state and came back, you know? Like I was naked in a grocery store for 12 hours and walked back (laughter)

>> Narration: Despite the existential crisis brought on by well-meaning southerners and their sadistic hosting methods that runneth your cup over, I had a fucking blast. Little Rock is full of life and laughter and people who just want to connect and share their stories. Far from a podunk town ten galaxies over, we’re beginning to realize that Little Rock is ideal precisely because it’s still largely malleable, providing a unique opportunity to draw from untapped resources and create a supportive artistic community.

>> Katie: So Gangie we really wanted you to be on the podcast because, well for one I wouldn't be a writer if it weren't for you. And you're also an artist yourself and I think we want to talk about that because some things you don't know about our press is that we are trying to start an artist salon down here: Animal Riot Artist Salon in Arkansas.

>> Gangie: Oh great.

>> Katie: Yeah, so those are some of the things we are hoping to do.

>> Gangie: Wonderful

>> Katie: So in order to galvanize that community, we are just talking to people and learning things and building on that community. Anything else I might be missing Brian?

>> Gangie: That's great. How would all of that work?

>> Brian: Katie's the ring leader of all of this

>> Gangie: Oh she is? Ok

>> Katie: Well, we are actually doing a podcast this evening, it's a double-header on Christmas Eve here, with two people: Myriah, my best friend, and another friend of ours Drew Wilkerson who is a musician here. And they want to help start the salon here. So you know we run our reading series up in New York?

>> Gangie: Uh huh

>> Katie: And so it would be a lot like the reading series except for that it's not just for writers and readers but it would be for all artists to come share their artwork

>> Gangie: Oh, that's cool. I like that

>> Brian: Yeah, it can be anything

>> Gangie: Well and then it doesn't matter really. Artists feed off of each other. Like if I meet a trombonist or pianist or whatever, somehow it's just a more exciting conversation than the accountants and etc. (laughter)

>> Katie: Yeah

>> Gangie: And nothing against accountants (laughter)

>> Katie: Yeah and that's why we wanted you on here and why we wanted to do this. I mean as a writer I get tons of inspiration from other artforms. Brian also raps, did you know that about him Gangie?

>> Brian: Mhm. I'm retired. I would say I'm retired. I retired in my prime

>> Gangie: (laughs) Ok. I see

>> Brian: Yeah

>> Katie: We'll have to play something for you

>> Brian: I have a few fire tracks though. I'll have to play them for her. So when you went to New York was it life changing? Did it open your eyes to everything or was it a new experience?

>> Gangie: Oh yeah, well I didn't see that much of it.

>> Brian: Oh really?

>> Gangie: No, no. Because of...

>> Katie: It was the military

>> Gangie: Yeah

>> Brian: Up at dawn?

>> Gangie: See this is back in the day when young girls, especially young girls from the south (laughs), weren't allowed in the city by themselves hardly. So you had a chaperone, somebody to stay with you at the hotel and everything

>> Katie: But you snuck out sometimes

>> Gangie: Oh yeah

>> Brian: Yeah, this is what I want to hear about (laughs)

>> Katie: So have you ever heard of the musical "Smokey Joe's Cafe"?

>> Brian: I think he mentioned that before to me. Is that a jazz club?

>> Gangie: That was when I was studying at Jacob's Pillow, there was a little bar about two miles down this dirt road from us on kind of a little highway I guess. We older kids, I was all of 17 I guess. (laughter) But we would sneak out at night and go down to The Pines, that was it, The Pines. And an older woman and her husband ran it. We got to be good friends with them so we would serve drinks for them and then they would give us drinks. (laughter)

>> Brian: Just get behind the bar?

>> Gangie: No we would serve them under the table

>> Brian: Oh I see. Ok

>> Katie: But they would give you drinks too (laughter)

>> Brian: I'll take a drink for bringing a drink

>> Katie: Gangie wasn't a saint is what you're saying. She's a rebel artist

>> Gangie: I did everything any other kid has ever done I think (laughter)

>> Narration: To my continued amazement, I would come to discover that Gangie plays a starring role in the lives of countless Little Rockians, in both the arts community and beyond. Later in life, upon moving on from her dancing career, Gangie took up visual and mixed media arts.

>> Brian: Is he the one who got you into theatre when you were a kid?

>> Katie: I think Gangie did

>> Gangie: I think I did

>> Katie: Gangie kind of just did anything with the arts. Gangie was in it, doing it, and encouraging me to do it. The only thing I could never really encourage her to do was to write even though she's got some amazing stories. I've been trying to get her to journal for years.

>> Gangie: I tried a journal but I get off the track (laughs)

>> Katie: Gangie, the world is like a cigarette (laughter)

>> Gangie: Are you telling me I'm off the track all of the time (laughs)

>> Brian: Well speaking of that, I'd like to mention that just because Katie is wearing the 'Talkin bout practice' shirt, that I got from Devin.

>> Katie: Yeah, talkin bout practice Gangie (laughter)

>> Brian: And so I had to show Gangie, the other day, the Allen Iverson video.

>> Katie: Yeah, well for someone who doesn't know who that is, explain it

>> Brian: Ok, basically Allen Iverson was getting questioned on why he wasn't at practice the other day. This is back when he was playing at the turn of the century or something. He eventually goes off on a rant and just keeps repeating "We're talkin bout practice. Not the game I love, not the game I would die for. We talkin bout practice." (laughter). It's a great video. I wish we could link it on this podcast

>> Katie: We could probably play it in here and you showed that to Gangie the other day, you remember that?

>> Brian: Yeah it was hilarious (laughter)

>> Katie: We had no time (laughter)

>> Narration: Gangie painted sets, worked on school plays, made costumes, and encouraged rabbles of children to immerse themselves in various artistic endeavors across the city. But more than that, she was always listening, always there for those who needed her, always offering support to those struggling. She took in many of Katie’s and Sam’s friends as if they were her own grandchildren, and fostered their love for art, no matter what medium it was.

>> Gangie: I feel like if you can get a kid, an underprivileged kid, that's never been introduced to the printed word. If you can get them to read anything that really excites them, that they can get into, I think it's the first step in cutting lose a genius

>> Narration: Most of our podcast guests, I’ve come to realize, are somewhat hesitant at first, whether because of shyness or reasons more peculiar to the individual. But, due in part to our producers’ unparalleled editing aplomb, we’ve never failed to get our guests to open up. And it’s right around now that each guest begins to paint a flavorful picture of their small slice of Little Rock’s arts scene, which is precisely why we’ve come together: to understand what moves the people here; to understand which forms of art and expression moves them; to understand what they read and why; to understand what they want from their community and how they can help achieve it.

>> Katie: So you know that we are doing Animal Riot and we are launching this press and we have this podcast. You are making an animal for us, right?

>> Gangie: Yes

>> Katie: Because dancing was probably the first big chunk of your life and eventually moved into visual art making, and welding, and building things, and...

>> Brian: Welding?

>> Katie: Oh yes

>> Brian: Oh I love woodworking

>> Katie: She gave me a Dremel tool for my 10th birthday. I loved it

>> Brian: (laughs) I don't know what that is (laughter). Just for everyone else listening out there, I'm the northerner down here in Little Rock so I couldn't even go out there and rake leaves

>> Katie: He laughed, one time I came here to visit you and I was texting Brian that we are doing yard work and having some beers and it was like "yard work?" And he died laughing. He thought that was the funniest thing. He was like "you actually do yard work?" I was like "yeah" (laughter)

>> Brian: I thought we just had machines roving around everywhere that did everything for us (laughs). I guess we aren't there yet.

>> Narration: A side note, my yankee, anti-yard-working ways are a running joke down here. But the joke is really on them, because I didn’t do any of it. So split your sides out, my southern friends, so long’s I don’t have to sacrifice my afternoon building piles of foliage, or whatever it is people toil over in their yards.

>> Katie: So we’re doing this press and I don't know if we really had time to sit down with you and tell you why we want to launch it and why we want to do this press. But our tagline is 'Books that Matter' so we feel that writers aren't really cared for in the publishing industry and the literary industry. It's become such a... I don't know...

>> Brian: I think they just pour all their money into the people that they know will make money and when that happens you can't get new people to start selling

>> Gangie: Well it's mainly a war between the editors, isn't it? I always felt the editors were trying to oneup one another rather than go...

>> Brian: That's very true. Especially about 10 years ago it kind of came to a head because they were starting to give these writers advances that were so huge that there was no way they were going to make that much money on that kind of book.

>> Gangie: Uh, huh

>> Brian: So no one else is going to get a piece of the pie. They can't publish other novels, it's only the ones that they think can sell.

>> Gangie: To get new and real writers?

>> Brian: Yes, exactly

>> Katie: And innovative literature. A lot of the literature that we see, we feel caters to the same trend and it falls off and nobody cares about them. There are writers out there who are creating meaningful art and that's kind of why we want to start this press because we want to find them. We want to be build more community

>> Gangie: Oh I think that would be great

>> Katie: We are tired of just online communities of writers. We want in-person book readings and sharing and to just cultivate more of an energy around that and around maybe a little more difficult literature too

>> Brian: Stuff that people can read is just that the industry is telling them that they can

>> Gangie: Yeah

>> Katie: Yeah

>> Brian: Like one of our good friends Sergio De La Pava, him and his wife are just amazing. He wrote a book that was *this* thick that is called "Naked Singularity"

>> Katie: Incredible book

>> Brian: Yeah, one of my favorite books ever. And his new one is amazing too. And he couldn't get it published anywhere. He sent it to 90-100 agents and after 3 years he finally put it away. Then his wife self-publishes it for him and I guess publicized... I never really got the full story about that actually, I would love to talk to her about that... and then it sells a lot, 30,000 copies or something like that. And now he's getting published with a big press just because he's proven it. But that book's not easy to read, especially for people that don't read that much literary fiction.

>> Katie: But no one would take a chance on it so his wife just "screw the industry, I'm going to do this myself" and she did and then it got picked up by a press because she did the legwork. We were like that it shouldn't be like that because there's a whole lot that publishers just put out a book and they don't support you on the book tours, micro stuff, like little things to promote. You don't really realize all the promotion that really needs to go into a press. And so these are all things that we are trying to create and more... I kept saying 'holistic' in the beginning but that sounds so granola-crunchy. Just a more supportive press and community.

>> Gangie: Yeah

>> Katie: How much interaction, other than me, have you had with writers throughout your life?

>> Gangie: Probably none, let's see. No, I don't think I have had any interaction with a writer before. I mean I was always loved writing

>> Katie: Well you're a big reader

>> Gangie: Well I was until my eyes went south on me (laughs)

>> Katie: But we did find that the large print does help you a lot

>> Gangie: Oh yeah, it does

>> Katie: We'll have to make our books in large print for Gangie

>> Brian: We're also going to do audiobooks to

>> Gangie: There's something about the printed page that has a romance to it.

>> Brian: I know, I agree.

>> Gangie: It's just like reading a book on an iPad, I don't want to do that.

>> Katie: I don't either

>> Gangie: I want to feel the cover

>> Katie: Same

>> Brian: Well what do you like to read?

>> Gangie: Actually for fun reading, the thing I probably enjoyed the most is "Courtroom Drama"

>> Brian: John Grisham?

>> Gangie: Yeah, John Grisham is good. And I wish I could remember the names now but Patterson is one.

>> Brian: James Patterson, oh yeah (laughter)

>> Katie: Oh God, Gangie don't, no. You're my idol

>> Brian: No this is great. Now we are going to get those McSweeney's pieces coming in. McSweeney's does these pieces that make fun of all of the commercial writers. It's pretty funny

>> Katie: Well she redeems herself because she likes my writing as well. (laughter)

>> Brian: Perfect. You just have to start sending her more stuff

>> Gangie: Well and I like that one writer that writes about this brilliant detective who...

>> Katie: Perot?

>> Gangie: No. He became injured somehow, he's a quadriplegic and he's bedfast. And he lives in a room with his caretaker. His speciality is that he knew different varieties of dirt (laughter), and sand, and gravel, and stuff like that

>> Katie: "The Bone Collector" is coming up, is that it?

>> Gangie: Wait, that may be. "Bone Collector"

>> Katie: It looks like it was made into a movie

>> Brian: "The Bone Collector", was that not Anthony Hopkins or Denzel Washington?

>> Katie: It was Denzel Washington

>> Gangie: Yeah, but who wrote it.

>> Katie: Joe Deaver, That's beaver with a D.

>> Gangie: Deaver, yeah that's it.

>> Katie: Oh ok, alright

>> Gangie: He really writes stuff that you can get your teeth into

>> Katie: Well ok, I have a question about that because we joke that we read more snobby literary fiction. So what do you think about that and what do you think about literary fiction? Like what is it and what is its place in the world?

>> Gangie: Oh, well Katie, of course I'm a little bit prejudiced, my granddaughter does an excellent job. (laughter) I just think a good writer is a good writer...

>> Brian: I like that

>> Gangie: Whether he's writing whatever, or literary treatises. A good writer can just get a hold of you and hold you there, hold you in that book. One of my very favorite books that I'm sure you have never heard of it, "Secret of Santa Vittoria". It's a little town in Italy...

>> Katie: That sounds like an erotica novel

>> Gangie: No, it's a tiny little town on a mountainside in Italy that produces the most marvelous grapes, the best wine in the world. And the Germans, they come to take over the town, they try to take the wine, and it's the townspeople hiding this wine from the Germans and how they manage to do it. But it is written, oh it's just written where you get chills up your spine. And it's one of those books that where you are nearing the end of the book, you start reading more slowly because you don't want it to end

>> Brian: Yeah, I know that feeling. Was that written by an American? Italian maybe?

>> Gangie: Yes, well no. In one minute I'll remember his name

>> Katie: You also read "The Mothers" recently. You liked that.

>> Brian: Oh you read "The Mothers"

>> Katie: Yeah she loved that. She finished it in 24 hours or something

>> Brian: That's sort of literary

>> Katie: Oh it's literary fiction. I would say so

>> Brian: It's got a commercial appeal to it but I would say that literary fiction

>> Katie: Yeah, I would say that those are some of the most successful literary books

>> Brian: Yeah, right.

>> Narration: I could listen to Gangie talk all the livelong day, about her favorite books, about the weird artists she knows, about anything that lets my ears luxuriate in her smooth rasp like stippled silk - and don’t worry, we’ll come back to her yet. But for now, we’re going to take inventory of the resources to which Little Rock artists have access. What people may not know is that Little Rock was actually a huge haven for the underground music scene in the 90s.

>> Myriah: Hey Drew, what would you say the Little Rock music scene is like?

>> Drew: I can only talk about this area. Maybe some Argenta stuff going on

>> Brian: Is there a turf war going on?

>> Myriah: Argenta is North Little Rock. There is a line between Little Rock and North Little Rock.

>> Drew: The line is a river

>> Myriah: We secretly hate each other

>> Drew: I don't. I hate Sherwood a lot

>> Myriah: Yeah, I think so

>> Brian: Their music or their people?

>> Drew: Oh no, we don't have representations like that. I wish we did. I wish we had turf wars and everyone was walking around snapping their fingers. That would be super great. (laughter) No, Sherwood just sucks. West Little Rock just sucks. I talk to musicians like... I know, we know plenty of musicians here

>> Myriah: God, everyone we have known has been in a band at some point. Or like representing a band. I know I tried to be in management for awhile but it was mostly a joke

>> Brian: You tried to manage a band?

>> Myriah: Well it mostly a joke to get my into the shows without paying

>> Drew: That is the number one reason for being a band manager. It's just like, hey I don't want to have to pay and I want to feel more important than the other viewers watching. (laughter) That is really how it goes and I 100% support it if you just do a little bit of the...

>> Myriah: I mean, I promoted them constantly

>> Drew: That's great, that's your job. That's what you do

>> Myriah: That's what I had to do. And I got in for free. Also slightly underage because I worked the video camera or some other lie. Because we all started this at a young age. We have a local pizza place called Vino's which basically has been the hub for most bands around here for a very long time. I saw Flogging Molly there, Voodoo Head...

>> Myriah: Smashing Pumpkins used to come

>> Brian: People are eating pizza?

>> Myriah: You haven't been to Vino's I don't believe

>> Brian: No, no

>> Myriah: Oh you should. It's good, it's good

>> Drew: Vino's is really good. Vino's is arguably the best pizza in Little Rock

>> Brian: And the Smashing Pumpkins played at a pizza place? That's what you're saying to me?

>> Drew: Yeah back in the 90's. They used to be the big place for underground music

>> Myriah: Yeah. It was underground

>> Drew: I would say there was way more music that was underground in the 90's than there is today

>> Myriah: My very first musical concert ever was when I was 11 and I was at Vino's to watch my brother's band play "Firehouse"

>> Drew: The band was firehouse?

>> Myriah: Something like that. Like, you know, fire or burning or something

>> Drew: The roof is on fire

>> Myriah: Yeah. The roof is on fire.

>> Drew: We didn't need any water

>> Myriah: No, they'll put it out

>> Brian: That's also another Nelly music video "Hot in Here". You guys wouldn't know, you're too young. Grow up (laughter). Anyway, but I feel like that the underground was ok you're not signed and now no one knows you. That's the underground now. You're just touring in your city or something like that, you know. Because you can put your shit on Spotify now.

>> Myriah: We have a small bit of hip hop here too that blew up

>> Narration: The Smashing Pumpkins playing at a pizza place here in Little Rock is tantamount to the Chili Peppers playing their pre-Californication comeback show at the 9:30 Club in DC - only way cooler because it’s a fucking pizza place. To a bass-head like me, I was fascinated by much of what Drew had to say about the local music scene and its history. And again, while I could also listen to Drew wax cynical on the lack of music wars here in Little Rock, all the livelong day, and while we do aim to create a community that includes all walks of artists, our true love does lie with literature. So, apropos of our conversation about the changes in underground music, I asked about Little Rock’s writing scene, what that looks like, and which writing communities have managed to prosper despite seeing big talent gravitate to the big cities.

>> Brian: So guys, I was wondering. Is there an underground Little Rock writing scene?

>> Drew: Yes, I would say yes. There are people in Little Rock that write

>> Brian: And aren't known?

>> Drew: And aren't known.

>> Brian: Yeah, I would wager that there are

>> Drew: I don't know if there are people who write that are known (laughter). Little Rock, Arkansas is not really known for it's literary prowess. But also, we have really good writers here

>> Myriah: We really do

>> Brian: So it should be

>> Drew: There's not a connectivity to...

>> Brian: The arteries of publishing and stuff like that?

>> Myriah: Well I feel like a lot of things go through the universities nearby.

>> Brian: I see

>> Myriah: Like they're really good at doing things. I think the last time I went to a reading was at Vino's and that was 3 or 4 years ago.

>> Brian: Oh so that was a while ago

>> Myriah: Yeah

>> Drew: We have stuff. I have been to some that were packed but then others where I am 1 of 5 people there. There's not...

>> Myriah: There's not enough promotion for finding people who are willing to do it. Because people say they are going to do something and then you have to go "well are they really gonna", you know?

>> Brian: I can also see that if most things go through the schools...

>> Myriah: Because the school has its own literary magazine and other stuff

>> Drew: It's only looked at by certain people though.

>> Myriah: Yeah, I never got a copy honestly, to tell you the truth. I knew it existed but I never got a copy

>> Drew: Yeah, it's like "oh you like to do this"... and this is with every form of art really probably every... there's a "oh you look to do this so you have to play by these rules in order for you to be able to do this" and a lot of people quit. They go to their job

>> Myriah: Yeah, it's true. Or they have their family or kids or something like that. There's these two women that I know very close who are phenomenal writers and one of them just wrote a book. And they're mothers, single mothers, and it's kind of hard to get them to come out and do something so they do most of their stuff through social media because it's easier. So if they want a copy then message me and send it to me rather than going out somewhere.

>> Brian: That's kind of why we are doing Animal Riot because of exactly what you said and stories like that, what you said Myriah. It's so hard to sit there and write in a room by yourself and get nothing in return and you have to make money so some people quit. Or you wallow and that can be just as depressing or whatever... and honestly we have a lot of ideas, even going to the point of commissioning writers or something like that but we aren't there yet. We don't know if we are that rich

>> Drew: Yeah, well definitely not there in Little Rock, you know. I completely support that.

>> Katie: But basically we are already talking to writers we like and saying "you can finish this then we would love to publish it." I know if I had an outlet like that when I started my novel, shit it would have been a lot easier for me. I think with Little Rock being removed... when you were talking about people going through the school, that's a sign that things are kind of tough because you have to go through Academia. Whereas writing is fun, it's great to have a literary journal at a school. But in New York we have all this shit going that totally removed from any institution

>> Myriah: It's probably all we have. I can't think of any literary...

>> Drew: We have... so at Vino's and sometimes White Water, very rarely.

>> Myriah: Very rarely

>> Drew: There are people that do it but there is not a revenue stream for the people that are orchestrating it to consistently do it. We are a very corporately run, corporately controlled state as a whole. We have a very small number of people who control almost everything so being an independent person and not having money, it's very easy to quit the stuff you love to do the stuff that keeps your lights on

>> Myriah: Yeah, because you have to pay the bills. The struggle bus is real

>> Drew: Yeah

>> Narration: Although none of our guests consider themselves writers, Little Rock is so small, relative to the coastal population’s notion of a city, that their knowledge of what’s here and who’s doing it is based somewhat on villagistic bandies and rumors.

>> Marcus: I know that there is a little bit of a literary scene here. I see things pop up from time to time where there's like poetry readings and spoken word readings, stuff like that. But the art scene has kind of died down a bit in Arkansas, like it used to be huge. Ok let me take that back, it hasn't died down in Arkansas, it just transferred from Little Rock to Fayetteville (ohs). Like everything’s pretty much big and blowing up over there. Even all the big bands are coming through Fayetteville. They're not even coming through Little Rock.

>> Sam: I went to a Ted talk here, it was Tedx, and they talked about how they fucked our city, Little Rock, and our state. We weren't as progressive as the rest of the people at the time so we moved our university out of the capital city, and I don't know whose idea it was at the time or paid for that...

>> Brian: To Fayetteville or what?

>> Sam: To Fayetteville, yeah.

>> Brian: Are there more people there now than Little Rock?

>> Sam: No, it's still about probably a third I would say. Here it's probably 300,000?

>> Brian: Oh that's a lot less. Yeah, it's like 200-250,000. If there's like a third in Fayetteville then that's like where I grew up with outside of Baltimore. It's crazy

>> Sam: Yeah, it's kind of weird out there. That's like Walmart headquarters so there's like a Walmart ice cream shop, a Walmart library, there's a Walmart dentist. It's like you're in a branch davidian compound but it's like the Walmart davidian compound. Everything is branched out in Walmart and they have all the fucking money so naturally if that's where all the money is then that's where everything is going down.

>> Brian: Right, right

>> Sam: So everything is coming out of there right now and the Razorbacks are up there. There are a bunch of schools up there. But it's kind of lame that it's transferred out of Little Rock. But one thing I can say about Little Rock is that it's small enough. It's big enough where you can get that city vibe but it's small enough where if you want to be left alone and get some fuckin work done then you can do that too

>> Brian: I see

>> Marcus: Right. There are things to do here. When people talk about boredom like "oh I'm so bored", well there are tools and resources here...

>> Sam: Yeah, you just have to be creative and not expect it to be handed to you

>> Marcus: ...Yeah like for me, like "I like to do pottery but I don't have a studio". Well I can go to the art studio, what is it? The Arkansas Art Center? And I can do pottery there

>> Sam: There's a lot of things downtown too. There's a replica of the Japanese concentration... not concentration, internment camps...

>> Marcus: Oh Lord.

>> Brian: Internment camp, yeah

>> Sam: ...That we had in the 1940's. So if you want to learn about your liberal freedom and how much you really don't have it then you can go visit one of those (laughs)

>> Marcus: Right next to Big Whiskey's there is a heritage center and you can go there. Everybody in the 2nd or 3rd grade went there and made candles and got to see what it used to be like back in the day and actually they have a blacksmith there who pounds things out. And like functional things...

>> Sam: Dude, we are known for blacksmithing

>> Marcus: ...so pottery and blacksmithing. So if I were to do anything or learn anything then it would be blacksmithing right now. I am enamored by Japanese culture, their swords...

>> Sam: Can you make me a spoon?

>> Marcus: I bet I could (laughter)

>> Narration: Contrary to the cliched existential progression from youthful optimism to elder crotchetiness so stereotypical of the South, Gangie was the one to provide the brightest outlook of our three groups of guests.

>> Katie: What do you think of the arts and culture scene here in Little Rock? You know, I told you about this community here

>> Gangie: I think it's a pretty good scene, pretty healthy. You know, there are a lot of little pockets, like the little theatre thing downtown

>> Katie: The Arkansas Art Center

>> Gangie: No, I mean the little place downtown where it's like a bar

>> Katie: Oh, Beacon Theatre? Is that what you're thinking of?

>> Gangie: Yeah

>> Katie: There's a lot of theatres actually. Surprisingly the theatre community is pretty big here. And a lot of like: Ballet Arkansas and Festival Ballet. Yeah, there are a lot of places like that but surprisingly since I have lived here and been in the writing scene that the writing community outside of my friends, you know I went to the University of Arkansas at Little Rock for my second bachelors where I got my English degree, outside of that I did not meet writers down here. I did not hang out...

>> Gangie: Well I remember when you had already gotten your feet in the sand writing with Roy who was saying he wanted to write.

>> Narration: Here, Katie and Gangie are referring to Roy Rainey, Katie’s younger brother, an actual working actor in L.A. and an extremely talented one at that. Our loyal listeners will remember that we had Katie’s sister, Lizzie Casteel - a graphic artist and web designer - on the last podcast. The art force is truly strong with this family.

>> Katie: He did? I didn’t know that.

>> Gangie: Yeah, he did. I wanted him to be able to speak to somebody and I think I looked up writers in the yellow pages (laughter) and I think I found some guy in, I don't know, some little town in Arkansas. Somehow I found that he was a decent writer and at least made some money off of it

>> Katie: Charles Portis? (laughter)

>> Brian: Who is that?

>> Katie: Charles Portis? He's like the big writer that we have down here (laughter).

>> Brian: Oh ok

>> Katie: He's a general recluse from what I understand. Although he would hang out at the bar that Myriah and I, The Town Pump, that we would hang out at. I never saw him but it was rumored that he hung out there

>> Gangie: He is a rather gruff old man (laughter). I said, "what can I do to keep this boy's interest up for whatever. What should he be doing?" He says "Writing! He just needs to write" (laughter)

>> Katie: I love that militant writer.

>> Brian: That's pretty true

>> Katie: I mean that's all fine to say, but having a community of supportive writers and going to readings and like meeting other artists makes such a huge difference

>> Brian: I think it helps you get better when you get some feedback but he is right. It's pretty funny

>> Katie: We are both right (laughter)

>> Brian: I can just imagine him slamming the door in your face

>> Gangie: I was on the phone with him and he said "my dog will just tell me when to write" (laughter)

>> Narration: Aside from the fact that this story is just funny, to hear an esteemed author supply such a flippant answer to a grandmother who is merely looking for some artistic advice for her grandson is also indicative of unexamined barriers to creating and sustaining arts communities - challenges we’re familiar with through our efforts to grow the Animal Riot Reading Series in New York. However, Arkansas faces challenges particular to this region, and we asked Myriah and Drew to elaborate on this as future hosts of the Animal Riot Salon here in Little Rock.   

>> Brian: But you guys are... Katie is asking you guys to run the Little Rock Salon down here and hopefully you guys have the time to do that. Are you guys curious what we are doing in New York? Are you excited to do it in Little Rock? Do you think it's going to be a challenge? What do you think it's going to be like? I don't know, just talk about what you guys think. We are kind of excited to hear what you guys want to do and how you see it

>> Myriah: I feel it can be done. I feel it might be a challenge because it's hard to get things together and done here.

>> Drew: The challenge... the thing that you are doing in New York is a challenge. Here it's going to be a challenge as well but it's going to be a different challenge. Like we have drastically less people

>> Brian: Mhm, that shocked me when I came here. Such a small city

>> Drew: We are drastically more sprawled out than y’alls millions of people in pretty much a small area

>> Brian: A small island, yeah.

>> Drew: We have such a small fraction of that spread out like 45 minutes in every direction. So getting everyone who wants to get involved and active is going to be hard. I think we are going to have to start smaller but we are going to have to start somewhere.

>> Brian: Yeah, exactly

>> Drew: It will be a challenge but I think it will be totally worth it

>> Brian: Yeah, because we come at it from obviously like, you know, literature. But you're a musician, you like archaeology, and you kind of like stuff and are curious in general. Is there anything besides people coming up and reading or something? Would you guys like people playing music? What else are other people interested in down here?

>> Myriah: Well I'm not technically in the literary scene. I don't write stories, I don't do anything like that. But I'm surprisingly surrounded by people that do. I read it, I love it, and I support it but I don't write it. But just recently after you have been saying this, so many of my close friends have started to write things.

>> Brian: Oh wow, that's cool

>> Myriah: You know, I don't want to name people's names on the podcast

>> Brian: We gotta call them out and make them stick to it (laughs)

>> Myriah: They're going to have to come out and do their stuff but it's just kind of unique to see how one person starts something and then I'm more socially aware of what's going on around me.

>> Brian: Right, right

>> Myriah: And I want them to get their voices out and I want them to be known because I support it and I support them. And maybe I might not have anything to contribute in that way but I can at least promote it and encourage

>> Drew: Yeah, the important thing is to talk about it and spreading it out around

>> Myriah: Because I like scientific writing and that's kind of boring.

>> Narration: There’s a subtle significance to Myriah’s waning words there, one lurking at the edges of all my conversations with folks down here. To dig deeper into this feeling of being unmoored or unsupported, I asked Marcus & Sam about what I perceived as a sort of surrender with regards to the arts and culture scene here.

>> Brian: Is there a low point in art in Little Rock that is ready to break out?

>> Marcus: In this area, I don't know if it's about to surge again but for a little while it was trying to compete with the Austin scene

>> Brian: And I could see that to be honest

>> Marcus: Like we would have artists putting up random exhibits and there was a big presence and a lot of venues

>> Sam: Yeah, we've been dubbed Little Austin so...

>> Marcus: We were dubbed Little Austin

>> Brian: Yeah, which is fitting, right. And also because Katie was a big player in the musical theater scene like with the youth getting into... what was it called? To chime in here. What was it called, The Arkansas...

>> Katie: Art Center

>> Brian: Art Center, there it is. Those are the two words. Arkansas Art Center

>> Marcus: Oh yeah. They just had the Mueller exhibit there. I can't remember his first name. Martin Mueller, that's his name. He's a famous collector and they put his collection on display and it was like 100 pieces of really high-end collections ranging from Andy Warhol to Picasso.

>> Brian: Well so they pulled some serious shit

>> Marcus: Yeah, well it's just this guy that has a major collection that he's been collecting for years. And he tours it to exhibits for not just him to enjoy but for others to enjoy because it's some classic works for some great people and he's got the funding to do it. A little backstory on Martin Mueller, he was an immigrant from Switzerland I believe. And he came here with nothing and with his own will power and wanted to succeed and wanted to do something better with his life he invested in some great things and came up with a lot of money. Which I believe is the only way to get a lot of money. You have to be willing to do something to contribute back to society. Some people don't handle it very well when they get their money and they take advantage of people but when you have great plans and want to do big things, money kind of, I don't know what the right word is...

>> Sam: Circulates.

>> Marcus: Circulates into your possession so you can do bigger things

>> Sam: And we don't spend money. I just learned that none of us spends money. We're never going to say that again. That means it leaves your life, you're never going to see it again. We circulate money because...

>> Marcus: It's a currency and it's a tool.

>> Sam: Zigg Ziggler, he was a motivational speaker, said money is like oxygen. When you need it then you really need it. Those tires will fall off of your car. The brakes will give out. The engine will too. Things happen in your life.

>> Brian: Oh definitely is.

>> Sam: C'est la vie. That's life

>> Narration: Again, while our other guests were apprehensive about the future of arts and culture in Little Rock, Gangie on the whole was optimistic, as if words such as implausible or impossible have never entered her vocabulary. Which is where Katie gets her unflagging determination. When confronted with an obstacle, rather than find a solution, Gangie seems to batter the impasse into utter obliteration.

>> Gangie: Now at like the art center, they don't do any classes in writing

>> Katie: Mhm, they may now. They didn't when I was there.

>> Gangie: You know, you ought to go down there and check that out. Push them a bit

>> Katie: I will say it's hard with me up in New York, I have been trying to help set this up out here. Even my friends Myriah and Drew who are very willing to do this with us have already said "we don't know, the community isn't as strong down here, you might get friends to show up for the first one so how do you really get people interested and engaged." And that's kind of what we are working on

>> Gangie: Well I don't mind going to the Arts Center and talking to... the people whose names I can't recall right now (laughter)

>> Brian: That's step one

>> Katie: Alright, listen Arkansas... you know we used to call it the Arkansas Farts Center. We love the Arts Center but it was funny. Arkansas Arts Center, Gangie is coming for you (laughter)

>> Gangie: Well they used me after you left. They liked the way I raised money

>> Katie: Oh really?

>> Gangie: Yeah

>> Brian: Oh that's where you get it from. She does that for her job all the time

>> Gangie: Well you just got to ask for it (laughs)

>> Katie: Basically

>> Gangie: But they had me calling on the big corporations, you know, going to the directors meetings and all of that. Gosh I can't even remember now. But it was for the Arts Center trying to get money. Because they dropped so much of this stuff out of the schools now. It's pathetic

>> Katie: Yeah, you know the place that I work, Community Arts Project?

>> Gangie: Uh huh

>> Katie: We send teachers into the schools through our non profits and those organizations, arts education organizations, have risen because they keep cutting arts programs from the schools.

>> Gangie: Oh yeah, it's pathetic

>> Katie: So New York really fought back on that and a lot of people started nonprofits but you're just not seeing that down here yet and I think that's a real thing to think about. How can we do that down here too.

>> Narration: Not to generalize Arkansans, but the majority of my conversations were attended by a palpable if subtle sense of insecurity. No matter how long they’ve been painting, or playing music, or writing, or crafting, they’ve never considered themselves an authority on the matter - as if art is above their station, reserved for those living in New York or Paris or any singularity for Western culture and intellectualism.

>> Brian: But yeah, our producer just signed to me that you paint as well

>> Myriah: Yeah, I paint (laughs). Nothing amazing

>> Brian: Very bashful about it

>> Myriah: I am very bashful

>> Narration: Myriah discredits herself. She’s talented in many ways. We commissioned her to create a piece for our website, which is now live, at animalriotpress.com. All too often I sensed this - people downplaying or belittling their skill and intelligence. It seems to me that when you lose arts and culture, you lose something of yourself. On our last podcast, Sean Casteel - co-owner of Via Design and Development - brought up a good point. He said, “how can you have a literary culture here when there is a literacy problem?” Superimposing the question onto this episode, the question then becomes: How can we grow arts and culture here when its potential constituency has lost belief in themselves and their own creativity? How do you champion those without a league to play in?

>> Sam: I thought about this podcast and I was very intimidated the first night. I was even like "oh my God there can be a podcast." And everybody gets in their head and we have to remember that everyone gets in their head, like, nails themselves to the wall a lot of times. Like, you don't have anything worthy to say, how can you talk about art? You know?

>> Brian: Sure, sure

>> Sam: But I have taken art classes my whole life

>> Brian: Which is all that matters. You're into it

>> Sam: My favorite thing, my favorite version of... if we're talking about actual, like, it's not interpretive dance but I do love to dance, and there's an art in dance. There's the martial arts and I would love to be a martial artist. But when we are talking about physical tangible art, things you can put your hands on and visualize and see, is pottery.

>> Brian: Oh

>> Sam: I almost made a shirt and while I was in my pottery class, cause I had electives so I used those electives for art. I took theater, judo, and pottery. I tried to take painting but I realized that I had a twisted ankle and I came in on crutches and the teacher was like "I don't think you are getting this". And I was like "Fuck you dude". Like, I'm taking this as an elective. But he was such an asshole to me that I might not ever know how great of a fucking painter I am because I didn't take the goddamn class in painting. So that let me to theater and I walked my ass with the crutches out of that class and was like "fuck this class, fuck this teacher". And I was like "I'm going to go for something else I like" and that was theater. But if we are talking about actual tangible things, it's pottery. So I made my first teapot which was made from the first piece of clay that we didn't even know we were making a teapot. Did you know that?

>> Marcus: Yeah

>> Sam: We made a pinch pot which is where you take a clay, you stick your thumb in the middle of it. A big lump of clay kind of like shit.

>> Brian: I have a question though. Does that make you think of someone blocking access to you to learning something when you were on those crutches?

>> Sam: No

>> Brian: For example, I have said this many times that we are trying to get an inclusive community involved in writing and stuff like that. I am curious about that for Arkansas in general. But we want to avoid those situations even though that's your personal situation when you walked in on crutches, you know, it's very specific. But it's a microcosm of what's going on. Arts a weird thing. A lot of people say you can't grade it, you can't say how good it is, like everything is art or whatever

>> Sam: Yeah you can

>> Brian: But at the same time you walk in on crutches and someone tells you that you can't paint. That's a little unfair right?

>> Marcus: Right

>> Sam: We weren't even painting, we were sketching and he was like "I just don't think you're getting it." And he kind of bullied me in a way because he probably knew I wasn't an artist because of my sheer lack of skill (laughs) at the time sketching because I don't practice that.

>> Brian: Right

>> Marcus: I honestly have to that you do have artistic skill Sam

>> Sam: Well, yes. Absolutely

>> Marcus: I look at Asian culture. Like Japanese turned everything into an artform. So it's not about actual art. It's about your ability to concentrate on something that you really want to do and your love for it...

>> Sam: Absolutely

>> Marcus: ...and to make it the best it can possibly be. And I have seen you do that with things in your life. Especially your career and other things in your life. So that's art in itself and I believe you have the ability to do it.

Marcus. Yeah

>> Narration: And again here. Take Marcus. He didn’t reveal his talents’ reach until prompted. But in fact, he’s an incredible painter, tattoo artist, and musician.

>> Sam: Marcus is recording an album right now with his three bandmates

>> Marcus: Yeah

>> Brian: Oh you play music too?

>> Marcus: Yeah

>> Sam: Yeah, he sings

>> Brian: Oh well I knew you played guitar but I didn't know you were in a band and stuff like that

>> Sam: He sings. Yeah, he's in a band and he goes to band practice

>> Marcus: Sam's come out to the practices

>> Sam: Yeah, I have gone to the practice

>> Brian: Yeah, well what's the name?

>> Marcus: The band name is Necrosomnium

>> Sam: Holy shit, I didn't even know that

>> Marcus: Which translates to...

>> Brian: Dead sleep?

>> Marcus: Dead asleep, yeah.

>> Brian: Look at my Latin. Look at my Latin

>> Sam: Good job!

>> Brian: I never learned lick of Latin. It's literally just looking shit up in the dictionary. Hard work pays off

>> Marcus: So it basically translates to dead asleep which is the state of everybody since forever. Everybody has been dead asleep

>> Sam: At sometime we will be dead asleep

>> Brian: Yeah

>> Marcus: The album is a concept album. It's 7 songs. 6 of the songs are 7 minutes long and 1 song is 14 minutes long

>> Brian: Is it metal?

>> Sam: It's metallish

>> Marcus: It's metal

>> Brian: That's what I thought

>> Marcus: But it's old school too. There are touches of thrash, there's touches of classic Zeppelin, there's touches of Metallica, there's touches of modern metal. But then there are touches of rock. It's no screaming, it's all singing

>> Narration: All of these challenges that our guests brought up made me ask one very obvious yet, more so, very important question.

>> Brian: So I have a good closed ending question that we can end on. So you guys both have to answer definitively though. So you guys obviously want Little Rock to prosper (agreement). Would you rather... oh how do I phrase this? I'm trying to ask would you rather stick around and see it out or get out here

>> Myriah: Oh I would move in a heartbeat

>> Drew: I want to get the fuck out of here

>> Myriah: I want to leave the country

>> Narration: But when pressed for non-closed answers, the outlook wasn’t quite so grim.

>> Brian: So you guys aren’t leaving? What do you do then?

>> Myriah: Sorry for talking about Arkansas not growing. It is. Things are getting better. Downtown is growing. We'll go on a positive note real quick. We'll backtrack

>> Brian: And there are reading series

>> Myriah: We do have a lot of things downtown. A lot of places where there weren't businesses, there are now. And new things are coming up. Just recently in the past few years we have this rooftop bar, a bowling alley for adults only. So we have bands that play, there are art shows, there are people that are tumbling, you get a lot of mullets

>> Drew: Would you like to expand on tumbling?

>> Myriah: They just tumble, I don't know

>> Brian: What? They're just rolling around on the ground?

>> Myriah: They just roll around. Who knows what's going on?

>> Brian: I don't. I certainly don't (laughter)

>> Drew: I got exactly what I wanted out of that. I just wanted to learn a little more

>> Myriah: Can you not...I just wish you could see in my head and see my imagery

>> Drew: I think I can. I am seeing it right now

>> Myriah: It's beautiful

>> Narration: Tumbling is an arcane form of physical expression taken up at Riverfest, Little Rock’s annual music festival, which has been rocking the Arkansas River for 40 years now. As a kid, Katie and her friends would attend if only to smoke cigarettes, steal beers, and go “mullet hunting” - a still more arcane form of expression though idiomatic even to this northern ear - with disposable cameras.

Anyway, back to Arkansas’ arts scene and the importance of bolstering the community as a means for supporting individual artists. Gangie’s take, ever optimistic, sums the tangible effects of an arts community, beginning with its impact on youth and education.  

>> Gangie: I just think the more art regardless of what kind it is: acting, singing, dancing, writing; the more you can put that in the hands of children or the underprivileged the better the world is going to be. It's just going to be better. It's just better. And I think everything should read Eudora Welty (laughter)

>> Katie: Eudora Welty? Ok

>> Gangie: Do you still have... I think I gave you my book

>> Katie: I'll have to look

>> Gangie: She's a southern writer. Best names, she can name her characters

>> Brian: Katie have you read her?

>> Gangie: And what's the name of the woman who read "To Kill a Mockingbird"?

>> Katie: Harper Lee

>> Gangie: Harper Lee, yeah.

>> Katie: Did you read the sequel... was the prequel or sequel? That they published after her death

>> Gangie: But is it actually a sequel? I thought it was just another book

>> Katie: No, it's related to "To Kill a Mockingbird"

>> Gangie: Oh, oh

>> Katie: What is it? "Go Set Watchmen"? Is that what it is? I can't remember. But we'll have to find it for you

>> Narration: Naturally, our guests had questions for us, about why we want to start a salon in Little Rock and help amplify Little Rock’s artistic community.

>> Sam: I’ve thought about this, what do we do? Because this world is really dark and art actually really expresses a lot of that...

>> Brian: And it's kind of dark in here

>> Marcus: It's dark. I don't think it's as dark as it used to be. It's definitely not as dark as the 1700's

>> Brian: I agree

>> Sam: ...and you know, this dystopia that we are in. But as far as this podcast goes and what you guys are all about, can you tell me a little about that? Like what's your focus? Because we were talking about that and I was talking about how I respect you guys. But I want you guys to bullseye what your focus is

>> Brian: The podcast is actually...

>> Sam: For someone who doesn't know and may have just heard this episode. Like what is y’alls goal?

>> Brian: Especially for the first two episodes we just had a familiar crew. We all knew everyone. Obviously it was our first two episodes so nobody else did. But there was a kind of chemistry between all of us. But it's more about learning and figuring things out as we are online here because it's a subsidiary to our press

>> Sam: Ok. Absolutely

>> Brian: I don't know. I don't know if there's much more I can put into that because it's so open-ended, you know what I mean?

>> Sam: I remember the producer saying that it's something like getting an expression... or I don't know if it's exactly from the producer but it's more like getting attention to art and community and how things...

>> Brian: Yeah. Our producers are saying that Sam is saying everything that we need to say right now

>> Sam: ...and what y'all are doing right now is bringing attention to something that I think gets heavily overlooked. There was this, I saw it on Netflix or Youtube, and it was a comic book brought to life in a movie. And it was if Clark Kent landed in Russia rather than America. And so at the end of that movie where they had gone, because Superman is essentially a god, and that culture grew... it's a really interesting movie and I think y'all should look into that. But what they focused on at the precipice, at their pinnacle, was art and literature and how that translated into society because everybody needs to express themselves and the best way to do that is in art. That's where singers get their therapy. Art is therapy

>> Marcus: It's so funny that you mention that because I was talking about that with you last night where we were saying that art is pretty much the last frontier of modern education where it teaches people what their feelings are and what their emotions are and how to translate them and control them and not be controlled by them

>> Brian: Rather than conform to what you need to do to survive.

>> Marcus: Because math and science and social studies and all of those things won't teach you about your emotions... I mean you might have emotions arise from reading certain things but art teaches you what it is exactly is and what it's supposed to be doing and how you can use it to benefit you

>> Sam: Absolutely

>> Brian: Absolutely

>> Sam: Jinx

>> Marcus: And they're constantly trying to get it out of schools. It's like one of the most important things

>> Sam: Well when you think about it, who builds the schools? The same people that build the prisons

>> Marcus: Oh well that's another hour long conversation when we talk about that level of capitalism

>> Brian: We are going to get into that at some point. We are doing a two parter on prisons and prison reform in January

>> Sam: Oh my god, it's a business. Have you seen Adam Ruins Everything?

>> Brian: Yeah we have (laughter)

>> Marcus: The only thing that I have left to say as far as art and literacy, I heard a wise man once say "you never really understand how illiterate you are until you read a really good book."

>> Brian: Ohh. I just got half chub right there

>> Sam: Oh wow, yeah

>> Marcus: And that resonated with me so profoundly because even when you read it a second time, when you read it the second time, you're like FUCK. It's like watching the same movie for the second time and you're like, "I didn't see any of that".

>> Sam: Yeah

>> Marcus: And I have to really stress that nothing will teach you the things that you need to learn in life better than a book...

>> Brian: I gotta say... Let me tell you something. I'm sorry, I have to say this. You will never see a more practical example of that than when you watch the movie "Cloud Atlas" to reading the book "Cloud Atlas". You go from seeing a cinematic, almost Holywoodified, experience into reading a book that is actually maybe my favorite book that I have ever read

>> Sam: Holy shit, mine is Dune

>> Brian: Dune, oh I read that so long ago

>> Sam: You read that and then watch the movie. Like it's pretty similar but the book goes into more of a political stance on it and shows how...almost a projection of the future.

>> Brian: Oh yeah

>> Sam: And then the movie is Hollywooded the fuck out

>> Brian: But I agree with you. I agree with you totally. You never know how much you are inferring about your surroundings and your environment and your own thoughts until you actually read a book where you can do it from someone else's words. That's why literature is so fucking important

>> Sam: It's also, you know, your vocabulary is that... you're reading a book and all of that new information is inputted and you're like "what the fuck did I just read". Like what did I read?

>> Brian: Yeah

>> Marcus: Yeah, read you some Hamlet bitch

>> Brian: I feel bad about that sometimes

>> Narration: We learned so much on our trip to Arkansas. That Little Rock is sprawling and welcome and wanting and naturally abundant all at once. For us, it’s the perfect place to set up an artist salon - a place that could use a community as conduit to both expressing themselves and finding collective meaning in the process. But also, it’s a place already sprouting with radicles for a thriving artistic community. What with the theatres, the music scene, and the local talent we talked about in this podcast, Little Rock is merely a bud waiting to pop and thrust forth into the sunlight. Gangie’s advice reflects what we strive to do with Animal Riot and the reason we’re here in Arkansas, building the foundation for what we’re confident will be a thriving arts community.

>> Katie: Is there anything we need to know going forward in our press? What do you think? Because you sent me this way

>> Gangie: I would just have to say to keep it real. Be so open and so honest. Don't ever try to impress somebody that you're trying to get on the train. Just be open and honest and work your tails off.

Brain: I like that

>> Katie: You know we do

>> Brian: I like that a lot. That's definitely something you don't get in the publishing industry. Or a lot of them.

>> Gangie: Yeah. Just, truly the best way to do anything is to be very open and very honest. People like to say "well you have no filter". Well I know I don't (laughs)

>> Brian: You're in good company

>> Gangie: Who needs a filter. Maybe some of the stuff that comes out of me might do some good

>> Katie: I think maybe 45 needs a filter

>> Brian: Yeah. There was a popular hip-hop song about 10 or so years ago that was called "Blame it on the Alcohol". Maybe we can just blame it on the eggnog (laughter)

>> Katie: Blame it on the eh-eh-eh-eggnog (laughter)

>> Brian: We're just pounding eggnog here. In front of a makeshift Christmas tree that Katie made out of books. (laughter)

>> Katie: That's our decorations this year (laughter)

>> Brian: Merry Christmas (laughter)

>> Narration: This episode is brought to you by Animal Riot, featuring southern artists Myriah Harrison, Drew Wilkerson, Sam Cooper, Marcus Fisher, and the one and only Gangie, and is produced by Katie Rainey, without whom we’d be merely a cabal of Shakespeare’s thousand monkeys banging on a typewriter.

Gangie’s laugh after closing