Episode 40: Slushie Pile
October 31st, 2019
Hosted by Brian Birnbaum
Guests: Rachel Lyon and Sarah Bridgins
Produced by Katie Rainey
Transcript by Jon Kay
Podcast Assistant: Dylan Thomas
Whaddup Animal Riot fam. Welcome to the 40th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast—us bunnies are officially over the molehill. Today we’ve got the lovely ladies of the Ditmas Lit reading series, Rachel Lyon and Sarah Bridgins, here to discuss the origin story of their friendship and thenceforth series, and, most importantly, the intricacies of our favorite HBO show, which rhymes with smecksmeshion. Not to mention two of the best readings we’ve yet to have on our podcast, period. What could possibly be better? Smecksmesh!
>> Brian: Welcome to the Animal Riot Podcast brought to you by Animal Riot Press, a literary press for books that matter. I'm your host, Brian Birnbaum. We're here today with Rachel Lyon and Sarah Bridgins. Rachel is the author of the novel "Self Portrait With Boy", which was long listed for the Center for Fiction's 2018 1st novel prize and is in feature film development at Topic Studios. Pretty Awesome. Her short work has appeared or is forthcoming in One Story, Longreads, JoyLand, Electric Literature and elsewhere. She is editor in chief of Epiphany and co founder of the reading series Ditmas Lit in her native Brooklyn, New York.
Sarah Bridgins poetry collection, "Death and Exes"... Fucking awesome name... is the recipient of the 2018 Sexton Poetry Prize and is forthcoming from Eyewear Books. Her work has appeared in Tin House, Buzzfeed, Bustle, Sink Review, JoyLand, and Big Lux, among other journals. She is a four time PushCart prize nominee and the co founder of the Ditmas Lit reading series, which is in Brooklyn. Okay, and don't worry, we're gonna come back to Buzzfeed, and I think you guys know why.
This episode's brand of fuckary is brought to you by Succession, which we will spend roughly 50 to 100% of the episode talking about. Okay, well, we won't. I just went there just to cover all my bases... because we're going to start with how you guys found each other and started Ditmas Which is in Brooklyn. (laughter)
>> Rachel: How did we find each other? Mr. Max Bean?
>> Sarah: Yeah, our friend Max Bean, who's good at bringing people together. You guys were roommates and went to high school together. I was friends with Max, and part of his writing group. Which I then resuscitated after I came back from grad school. So we were in the writing group together.
>> Brian: Resuscitated.
>> Sarah: Is that a big word?
>> Brian: That's a strong word.
>> Sarah: Well, it was sort of dormant for a while. I feel like I've performed the necessary CPR.
>> Brian: Put the paddles on it. I love it.
>> Sarah: Yeah, yeah. Gave it some shocks. So yeah, And you had just... We, like, went out for drinks, and you sent me an email that said I will never forget it. "I am aggressively pursuing this friendship."
>> Brian: There's the romance I was waiting for.
>> Sarah: My heart sank. It made me so happy.
>> Rachel: It's very Taurus of me. It was the most Taurus thing I have ever done.
>> Brian: Explain that. I know what I am but I don't know why.
>> Sarah: What are you?
>> Brian: I'm a Virgo.
>> Sarah: Oh interesting.
>> Brian: Katie is two days after me.
>> Rachel: You're a double Virgo relationship?
>> Sarah: Woah. That's how you manage to do this every week.
>> Rachel: That's why you're so weekly. That makes sense.
>> Sarah: That's why you're so productive.
>> Brian: I like I weekly as like a noun.
>> Rachel: I think that was an adverb.
>> Brian: That's true. It's a good point is why I have a line editor. But yeah so is that bad? I really want to talk about that for a second. A double Virgo
>> Rachel: To be two Virgos? I don't know, is it? How does it work for you guys?
>> Brian: The only other instance e ation of that that I that I'm aware of is the song Virgo with Naz featuring Ludacris. So that worked out that worked out pretty well. I love that song.
>> Sarah: It means you're very productive and organized.
>> Brian: Okay? Cool. I think one of us, I think one of us, I got some productive down. But organization? No, Definitely not. But anyway, so yeah, Taurus, tell me.
>> Rachel: Yeah, I guess stubborn is the number one characteristic that is, like, applied to the Taurus. What else? Like, oh, very domestic. Like we like to be comfortable. Kind of hedonistic into, like, pleasures of the body. (laughter)
>> Sarah: Oh god.
>> Brian: Just the body?
>> Sarah: I'm a Taurus moon.
>> Rachel: Yeah, you're a Taurus moon. And I probably have some Libra in there somewhere. Sarah's a Libra. So she's very charming. (laughter)
>> Brian: We're gonna bring this back. (bark)
>> Rachel: What is Rosetta?
>> Sarah: Do you know her sign?
>> Brian: Yeah. What is the meanest possible sign? A Leo.
>> Rachel: Leo's aren't that mean.
>> Katie: August?
>> Rachel: She's a Leo.
>> Sarah: Oh, that's interesting. That kind of makes sense. She has a lot of confidence.
>> Brian: Isn't she March?
>> Katie: April.
>> Rachel: Is she an Ares? I bet she is an Ares.
>> Sarah: Oh, I don't know much about Ares.
>> Brian: You got to keep the bark now.
>> Sarah: My cats are both libras. I decided they were born on my birthday.
>> Rachel: We're all triplets. We're all the same. (laughter)
>> Brian: So was that brought up in the e mail? You guys were like, we're both Taureses.
>> Rachel: The vibe that you're sensing here is what happened. We're like, Oh, obviously we need to be friends.
>> Sarah: And we need to hang out all of the time (laughter)
>> Rachel: And eventually Sarah was, like, interested... She had, like, left her position as literary agent was interested in coming back to the literary world and so suggested that we start this reading series together.
>> Brian: And is that when you moved on to what we will talk about in a bit - being a hedge fund executive assistant?
>> Sarah: Yes.
>> Brian: OK, Interesting. That's the MFA style. You put that out, we're gonna go back.
>> Rachel: Foreshadowing
>> Brian: Yes, exactly. That's the word for it. I knew there was a troupe I was using. Okay? Yes. What, like, what is Ditmas to you guys? Is it something that you did just because you guys like each other? Or is it something that you guys did for books? All of the above It's always, always all of the above spending a question that should be very short.Yeah. What is it all about for you guys?
>> Rachel: I mean, I think part of it was just originally was about being involved in the literary world when, like, neither of us really had any sure footing in the literary world. But we knew we wanted to be part of it. Is that right?
>> Sarah: Yeah. I mean, I definitely I used to be an agent. And when I stopped doing that, I sort of like it was a way to scratch that itch of working with writers and connecting them to an audience. And that was a lot of it. I just missed being more like in the mix.
>> Rachel: Yeah. And we wanted a reason to hang out every month.
>> Sarah: Totally
>> Rachel: And a reason to see our friends and give our friends an opportunity to read.
>> Sarah: Exactly, because we both know so many writers.
>> Brian: Yeah, that's why I asked.
>> Rachel: Right. And there wasn't one in Ditmas. So we knew we were filling a niche in that neighborhood that was really important.
>> Brian: Yeah. And I read there last night. And when you guys asked, Who's from Ditmas, I would say about half the crowd.
>> Rachel: Yeah, it's a real community series.
>> Brian: Yeah, exactly, which is really cool. And I mean, I think our lovely producers and Devin would say the same thing about Animal Riot and like that, they started it to make more literary friends. Sometimes I wish there was a more complicated answer, which I also that's why I asked you if it's because you guys liked each other, but, you know, but that really is what it comes down to. It really is just trying to build community because it's so hard for writers just being in their little caves, you know? And just not talking to other people.
>> Rachel: Yeah, it's very solitary.
>> Brian: And, you know, like, how do you do? Like, how do you, you know, get this story published, or you know, who do you know, blah, blah, blah. And it can feel kind of like networking bullshit like that. But it's also real. It's nice to know that other people are doing the thing that you're doing. That feels fucking crazy, you know? Yeah. And you know, Rachel and I were talking about someone we met last night who came and just, like, showed up.
>> Rachel: Yeah, What he said that I thought was really great, was he said, Sometimes you just have to show up. And he's a writer and he hasn't had anything published, as far as I know. Yeah, it was like he hasn't had his novel published yet. Which is true. You have to show up, but it's a lot easier to show up if you're the host of the event.
>> Brian: It's almost necessary, I might say.
>> Sarah: We also wanted something that, like I feel like a lot of reading serious sometimes feels like homework. You know, you're just going to like... it's a little scenie. So we wanted something that felt more like friendly and cozy and community oriented.
>> Brian: Yeah, is super laid back, which I really enjoyed, like in a way, not like in like, some just whatever way. But I showed up and I was just like, Oh, wow, I don't feel pressure and I couldn't explain why.
>> Sarah: That's exactly what we wanted for feeling warm and welcoming and have, like a generous audience, um, and have people show up who aren't necessarily writers are like part of the community, you know? You wanted to come for a thing to do on a Wednesday.
>> Brian: And that's a really good point because, like, I do think the literary community can be very incestuous in the sense of like, Oh, it's just right or supporting other writers. And I really think like one of the reasons it's so hard to sell books or all the way from that down to a reading series to get people to come is because it's hard for people to get interested. Who was the second reader last night? What was their name?
>> Rachel: Brianna Silverberg?
>> Brian: Yeah, they did such a good job of just like her poems just connected. They were just so funny.
>> Sarah: She is such a good performer.
>> Brian: Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
>> Sarah: It's more than telling.
>> Rachel: Yeah, I don't believe her bio. We read her bio before she read, and it said that she hadn't published before, which I just don't believe that.
>> Sarah: Well, because when I was doing the tweeting toe to promote the show, I was like, Oh, where can I link to her work was like, Wait, I can't.
>> Rachel: That's bonkers. She's a truly aural poet, you know? Yeah, it's like, really traditional way.
>> Sarah: She performs at Genre Reassignment all the time, which is a fantastic reading series.
>> Brian: I like that name.
>> Sarah: It's so good. It's once a month. On Mondays I forget if it's the first or second, but it it's amazing. It's a trans reading series in Brooklyn. It's really fantastic.
>> Brian: That's really funny. Because I was about to say someone started competing one called Gender Reassignment. Well, that's a play on words. So I'm a fucking idiot anyway. There'll be a copyright issue anyway, so yeah, Okay, let's talk about Epiphany for a second because everyone knows Epiphany. Which makes you super cool.
>> Rachel: Everyone knows Epiphany. So why do we need to talk about it? Basically, everyone knows everything... I know it's Ah, it's an 18 year old literary magazine based in Manhattan. We've published Elena Ferrante. We've published many amazing writers over the years, but importantly, we also publish a lot of people for the first time. So just actually on the subway over here, I was refreshing myself with this story by Ani Sison Cooney, who's a writer based on the West Coast and wrote a story called "Evangelina Conception", which is just a beautiful story about a young woman whose mother just died in this car accident that the whole family was in in LA. And they are a family of color. And in the article in the LA Times about the accident, it goes into depth about the pedestrian, the white pedestrian who was hit but says almost nothing about this girl's family. But it's all told in the second person, and I feel like it's really hard to write a second person story that works. But this one works really well, so I know that's just one that, like, is on the top of my mind tonight. But I'm excited about our forthcoming issue to come out in December or January.
>> Brian: What exactly do you do there?
>> Rachel: I'm the editor in chief.
>> Brian: Yeah, like but are you in direct contact with the content or are you... Was it like, you know, I don't think sounds like a big five things you do you pick the things that are getting published?
>> Rachel: I do. It's a really small operation, so I do a little bit of everything. So recently, our submissions window just closed. So I'm going through our Submittable.
>> Brian: And how is that?
>> Rachel: Lots and lots and lots and lots of stories. We got a lot of submissions, which is really exciting. Yeah, I think it's like 300 submissions that we got in just like a week and 1/2.
>> Brian: That's insane.
>> Rachel: Yeah, it was not because it was in the Submittable newsletter, which, by the way, Animal Riot submit a bill newsletter very wide reach. Good way to reach a lot of people, but yeah, so that that was lucky for us. So I'm going through a lot of those I just picked one out from... I guess we don't We don't use the word slush pile. I don't think there's anything negative about slush pile personally, but...
>> Brian: I guess I'm negative connotation to slush pile.
>> Sarah: The hidden treasures pile.
>> Rachel: Yeah. The treasure pile. (laughter)
>> Brian: Let's call it the slushie pile.
>> Rachel: Oh, I like that. I was slurping out of the slushie pile.
>> Brian: I just thought of that.
>> Rachel: You just thought of that?
>> Brian: I just thought of that. I had to say that because I did. (laughter)
>> Rachel: So yeah, I'm picking things out of there. And then also, I solicited a few people who I'm really excited about too and the cover image I'm very excited about as well. And we have two other artists visual artists inside the issue. Besides the artist who did the cover image. Jenny Kroik, whose amazing she's done a couple New Yorker covers. If you ever walked by like the kiosks on the street like you'll see her work on the kiosk. The New York City kiosks. She's great. I really love her. So I was excited that she gave us an image. And then we have two more artists inside the issue, too. So it's gonna be nice. It's a really, you know, giverse, eclectic issue.
>> Brian: Yeah, and I think it is really important to pick people out of the slushie pile because yeah, I mean, we actually mean nothing set in stone by, you know, I'm not going to name names or anything, but, like it can get to... It can become a grueling task, and it's like I really try to give work a lot of effort. We request 50 pages for Animal Riot.
>> Rachel: Wow.
>> Brian: Yeah, and so I tried it. Like I go as far as until I am absolutely certain.
>> Rachel: You guys are such Virgos (laughter)
>> Brian: And it's also one of those things were like, It's more fun for me to actually feel like I'm doing it for a reason. Like not not just to find something that I think will, like be a hit, Whatever. You know, whatever you want to call it, you know, an indie hit. One of our other writers, Annie Krabbenchmidt. I, you know, we didn't meet her like, you know, and so she wasn't out of the pile. But, you know, we just found someone the other day and we're gonna have a phone call with their agent, and hopefully it'll go well, but I was just shocked. I was like, Oh, my God, because I we got this admission back in late June, and I was like, This is still around right now? And this person is kind of like a well known musician. Like all this stuff, I was like, I'm just completely shocked. So all that work, it can feel really useless. And it's not because the writing is not good. It's just like, you know, it doesn't fit your taste or like maybe it's not finished. It's not fleshed out yet. Everyone has different process. But do you ever get like, Do you ever get to that point where you feel like you're about to give up and then you just, like, hit something? Or like, how does he usually go for you?
>> Rachel: Yeah, I mean, we're lucky. So we have a lot of volunteer readers who are all amazing, and the process is that the will have three volunteers read a piece. If it gets three up votes from three different readers when it comes to me. But I also just because we have so many submissions right now, I'm also just going through the slush myself on top of that. But for the most part, that's how it works. And I have you know, I have declined a few pieces that I really loved because they just didn't feel finished, you know, they, like, didn't feel like complete stories. But I mean It's amazing, like it's such a privilege to be able to read people's work that they've spent hours and days and years on, you know? And like I have been on the other side of that 1000 times. I literally have a spreadsheet that has 400 entries for all of the different submissions I have sent out over the years. And, like, I mean, I've done it too. So I know how hard.
>> Brian: So you kept a spreadsheet outside of Submittable?
>> Rachel: Yeah.
>> Brian: That was your own?
>> Rachel: Yeah.
>> Brian: I have to ask why? I'm so curious.
>> Rachel: Because when I started submitting 10 years ago, it was before since it was before every single journal was using Submittable and still like one story doesn't use Submittable, so but there are a few outliers, but like, yeah, at the time, it was, like, impossible to keep track of your submissions. Plus, I was feeling very competitive with my roommate at the time. This poet, Keith Leonard who had his own spreadsheet, but I was like, this guy's getting published all over the place. This guy has a spreadsheet. I'm gonna have spreadsheets. I'm gonna fill mine and faster, which is not what happened.
>> Brian: That's hilarious. The novel that I'm actually talking about that we're interested in now there's a musician, but this kind of takes place in the late nineties who keeps a spreadsheet as well. And like, of all these people that he knew, like, you know, in, like, kept in contact with him. But yeah, that's that's so so almost nineties. Yeah. So some people might not be interested in this. I'm extremely interested in how you went from being a literary agent to working at a Hedge Fund.
>> Sarah: I don't even really know how it happened. Yeah, I worked in publishing for 10 years. I worked in an agency for seven and at Penguin for three.
>> Brian: You worked at Penguin for three being, Were you acquisitions?
>> Sarah: No, I was a subrights assistant. So I sent bad paranormal romance novels to like Bolivia to be translated. I like it was a lot of like, physically labor.
>> Brian: That almost sounds almost sounds illegal. (laughter)
>> Sarah: I got a ton of free book, which was an amazing perk.
>> Brian: You read the paranormal romance books?
>> Sarah: Of course. All of them. Yeah.
>> Brian: Yeah. So you gotta write one of those now.
>> Sarah: I did have a moment where I was like I could, and then I was like, That's a lot of work for, like, five grand. (laughter) I decided not.
>> Brian: Yeah, well, you and yeah. Yeah. Rachel and I were just talking about the wonderful, wonderful world of advance against royalties. So, you know, if you back... don't ever get into this racket listeners, anyway, so then you went to a hedge fund, which I fucking love. I want to know what goes on. So you, but are you So what are you doing there? Because you're an executive assistant, which sounds so... that's different from assistant executive. I'm doing a little Dwight Schrute thing.
>> Rachel: Are you an assistant executive?
>> Sarah: No definitely not. Yeah, you know me.
>> Brian: Oh, I'm trying to get exactly what this means.
>> Sarah: So I was the assistant to the head of the tax department. So I mostly work with him. But then also, the other people in the tax department that's so fascinating. They're like 13 of them, But mostly I worked with him directly a manages calendar. I got him lunch. I got everyone cupcakes for the birthdays. I manage his inbox.
>> Brian: So you're Greg from succession?
>> Sarah: Uhhh I guess so.
>> Brian: That's his title.
>> Rachel: That is you don't have to be a human footstool.
>> Sarah: No. I never had to do that. Thankfully.
>> Brian: Well, well. But that's the thing that I said that endearingly. Cause Greg like, you know, like you Machiavellian fuck. Like, you know what I mean? I love Greg.
>> Rachel: It's not my favorite Rose. That's the line which shows character development.
>> Brian: It's Oh, my God, it's beautiful. We're probably losing people right now. We're saying we're directly quoting Succession now.
>> Rachel: Everyone has seen it.
>> Brian: If you haven't then honestly, you need to stop whatever you're doing. You need to turn on HBO or order here. Okay? We're gonna backtrack and tell the same story that I told Rachel last night. Katie's grandmother was visiting a few weeks ago and we introduced her to Succession. We had to go to work that day. We come back, she is still watching Succession. She is now on season two. She finishes it and then goes back home to Little Rock, Arkansas and orders HBO specifically to watch Succession.
>> Sarah: Wow. You should get a commission.
>> Brian: Yeah, I know. I should really call HBO.
>> Rachel: Cha ching.
>> Brian: But then, just the other night, this maybe it was last night or the night before, She's on the phone with Katie and Katie breaks it to her that that was the season finale and like, it's not gonna be on for another like year and she just flips out. She's like, Why the fuck did you do this to me? Like like we got her hooked on smack like....
>> Sarah: For the rest of America, Gangie is us.
>> Brian: Is it the rest of America? I kind of heard couple things. I've heard that, like it kind of has a cult following. Or is it, like Sopranos level at this point?
>> Sarah: I don't think it's Sopranos level.
>> Rachel: Sopranos was network television right?
>> Sarah: No, Sopranos was HBO.
>> Rachel: Oh, but it was on TV, TV, like back when we had a finite number of channels?
>> Brian: No, HBO, I think you had to order it as a separate package.
>> Rachel: But you watched it on a television.
>> Brian: Yes.
>> Rachel: Yeah, like there's like it was like before you had streaming services with endless things that would look right like it was on at a certain time of night. You had to wait for it.
>> Brian: Yeah, it wasn't competing with, like, all of this other shit that's out now, but yes. So in my opinion, Succession is the greatest show ever made because it, like, fits me. Of course, like the whole like corporate, like hyper conservative, just like narcissistic Fuckary meets like Shakespearean dialogue. You know what I mean? Like, it's like corporate Shakespeare, and it's just like the greatest thing I've ever heard in my life. Why do you think it's the greatest show? Because we are all in agreement that it is the greatest show ever made. And I'm watching The Wire right now, which is what a lot of people would say is the greatest show ever made, right?
>> Rachel: I mean, you had a great line which was Succession was what Game of Thrones wanted to be. How so?
>> Sarah: Oh God, I don't know. I'm not good at articulating these things on the spot, just in terms of like the nature of power and the different dynamics. I mean, one thing that's so great about this show... It's like and I Honestly, I really hate conversations about character likability. They always develop something super annoying. But I do you really like that everyone is just, like, kind of terrible.
>> Rachel: And still kind of loveable in a fucked up way.
>> Brian: Especially in the sense that you have to catch like you... It was Carl on one of the recent episodes, Carl, after their conversation about who was gonna, you know, take the fall. Carl is like because, like, Rome is fucking with them or something and Carl is like we're humans, remember? And I'm sitting there like Oh, yeah, but you guys were killing people on cruises like, you know, and you, like, don't always remember that like that. You know what I'm saying? And that's how beautiful the show is. Like you do actually care about what they're going through.
>> Sarah: I feel like if something bad happened to any of them, like, I wouldn't care that much like it if you would be like, Well, yeah, you deserve it, which I think is really interesting. I can't think of a lot of other shows like that.
>> Brian: So if Rome had gotten worked in the Middle East, you know, I think they were in the Middle East.
>> Rachel: I would have been really sad if Rome was killed.
>> Sarah: I love him, too. But I don't know if I would be sad
>> Brian: But if he was off the show?
>> Sarah: Well, that would bum me out because it would make the show less good. But I don't think I would cry for the character. You know, like, you sort of feel that way about all of them I guess. Which I think is really interesting.
>> Rachel: I think one thing that makes the characters work is that none of them is really all that smart except for Logan. They all are manipulative and their operators, and they're, like, nasty to each other in interesting ways and their witty whatever, but they're not strategic at all.
>> Brian: They can't see 10 steps ahead.
>> Sarah: They're not very good at what they're doing.
>> Brian: Which is your theory?
>> Sarah: And my theory of the ending right? But like, I guess no spoilers, Right?
>> Brian: Actually you know what? It's been a long enough. I want you to put forth your theory because fuck it.
>> Sarah: Well, I'm already because we talked about last night that I'm gonna get out voted. But my theory is that Logan was behind... that Logan knew that his weird pep talk thing that he had with Kendall, where in Kendall's like, did you ever think I could do it? And Logan's like, uh, basically no, because he says you're not a killer, not a killer.
>> Brian: Which is always why. And I will bring this back to something that very few people might care about, Which is why I thought Kobe Bryant was better than LeBron James back in Kobe Bryant's prime. Because I didn't think LeBron James was a killer either.
>> Sarah: Sure.
>> Rachel: Hot take (laughter)
>> Brian: And so I think a lot of people take hold on... I'm not done yet. Which is why I think LeBron is who he is today. Because I do think he took that to heart and pulled a Kendall and has now gone to the final so many times in one, like a few times, You know what I mean? And so that that that backs up your theory.
>> Rachel: Yeah. I absolutely think that he knew Kendall well enough to know that Kendall would flip on him and that he wanted that to happen the whole time.
>> Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Rachel: And he was really proud when it did, because he wanted Kendall to be a killer and he wanted to be off the team. He wanted to be kicked off, and he didn't want to go of his own volition because that looks weak. So it's like the perfect solution.
>> Brian: And you thought in that in that last look, that was a look of pride.
>> Rachel: Yeah.
>> Brian: Interesting. Yeah, I love it that Oh, that's what you thought? Our producers are saying That's what she's thought too. I didn't get that.
>> Sarah: I didn't get that either.
>> Brian: Well, Katie said that she thought that Kendall was going to be the one picked I didn't know that's what she thought. Yeah, goodbye, Logan. I did. I didn't know that. That's what she thought were now finding out that that's what she thought. And she's nodding, sort of like shaking her head, nodding. But yet we you know, Sarah and I disagree because here's one thing, and I can't believe we have a year until we have to figure until we gotta figure this out. But I also think there's so much shit behind Kendall and the car thing, you know, killing the waiter. Yeah, where the waiter died. I don't know that Logan could have banked, but, you know, at the same time, now I'm thinking, Well, he knows he has that on him. So if Kendall goes and does that. He's like, Yeah, you can't. You know?
>> Rachel: I think like part of the beginning of the show set us up... Like Logan is so unsure of who he wants to inherit this thing because he looks around him and all he sees is idiots all the time. Like he is so tired of all of these idiots.
>> Sarah: Well, that's what was so interesting when Shiv fucked up. I want to take back the thing about likable. I think they're all unsympathetic. That's what's interesting.
>> Rachel: Right. They are likeable.
>> Brian: That's a very important distinction.
>> Sarah: It's so well written, it's so much fun to watch.
>> Brian: I genuinely like Rome. I genuinely like Shiv. Yeah, Kendall, he's the one I feel for the most. You know what I mean? But I don't like him very much. Even though I see so much of myself in.
>> Rachel: I do too. I feel for Kendall.
>> Brian: Hey, so let's all right, we're gonna do something absolutely horrible. Now, uh, we're gonna talk about who we got on our Buzzfeed quizzes because I found an article in the Cut.
>> Sarah: Did you do it?
>> Brian: I did it. I found another quiz on... Um okay, just just just google. Just Google buzzfeed Succession. Who are you in Succession? And yet we're And we're going to get our producers results live. It's very, very, very funny.
>> Rachel: I wonder if there is an astrological sign relationship to who you are.
>> Sarah: What are their signs?
>> Brian: What are you again?
>> Rachel: I was Shiv.
>> Brian: You're a Shiv with a what?
>> Rachel: What was I calling myself? So I took the quiz and I was a Shiv. When was it... who did that originally like you are with this With that rising that maybe was Ira the third from that podcast. Keep it. Which is an excellent podcast. But yeah, I think I said I was like a Kendall with a Roman rising or something. Which is really embarrassing to say that.
>> Brian: I think I said I was a Kendall/Rome Binary star with a rising Logan moon. Or waning Rogan moon or planet? I don't know.
>> Rachel: I told John, who is my partner, I told him like you're just straight Logan. And he was like, he, like, thought about it for a second. He was like, Yeah, yeah.
>> Brian: You said that to him?
>> Rachel: Yeah. He's ruthless. It's a great relationship.
>> Brian: I'm horrified for you. Katie, who are you?
>> Katie: I got Kendall.
>> Brian: Oh, my God, That's that's wrong. That's just wrong. I don't know.
>> Rachel: Okay. What did you get?
>> Brian: I got Rome.
>> Sarah: I'm not surprised at all. I can see that. Wait, I got Willa. We need to talk about that.
>> Brian: Also, there's an article in the cut written by Anna Silman. I don't know who that is. Honestly, but it's called "What You're Buzzfeed Succession Quiz Results Really Mean". Okay, because I love the media pile up on. This is so great. And this is why it's such an important article. Okay, Because I'm just I'm literally read that. I'm gonna need the I'm gonna read her opening paragraph. Lately, everyone on the Internet has taken Bud Buzzfeed's Succession quizzes everyone everyone has. Okay, that's a fact. We know that it's her first line. While the results appear to be accurate Parenthetical it's true. I am such a Willa, shout out to Sarah.
>> Sarah: I am not proud of that.
>> Brian: The description seem a little too optimistic for a show about a family of narcissistic monsters. Okay, so that's very important, because let's read Roman's description, which I got a Roman right? This is Buzzfeed's description of Roman. You're smart, but you're not. You're not a big picture person. You like cracking jokes, having fun and letting everyone know you're not taking things too seriously. You've got some very specific interests and or desires that you're struggling to come to terms with but you've got some good allies in your corner. It's like, really like yeah, okay. But you're also jacking off behind the bathroom door. So this is what The Cut so that the cut says what? So it says you're a Roman Roy. Exclamation point. You're a dirty little slime puppy, aren't you? Yeah. You like it when I call you a slime puppy, don't you? That's because you're a sick, twisted little boy. God, you're disgusting. You want me to spit in your mouth, don't you? Go into the bathroom and think about what you've done. That is, though not like global description of Rome, it's a more accurate one.
>> Rachel: Jerry is the best character on the show. Slime puppy is the best. (laughter) She's amazing.
>> Brian: Especially especially for being so like, like, almost not reticent. But like, like neutral, like stolid, you know? Her lines are just so s so cogently like, just like knives. I love them. So Okay, you got Shiv. Let's read the real...
>> Rachel: Read the other one first, I like the juxtaposition of the food one first and then, like...
>> Brian: Yeah, let's do that.
>> Rachel: Because I love the idea that, like, it is just sugarcoating this and making it like, Oh, it's like personality quizzes.
>> Sarah: This is a different one than the one I did.I took like community one. Yeah, I got Shiv. I don't think that's accurate. I still think I'm Willa. I would totally be an escort who, like, found a rich guy and then made him, like, produce my plays. Like I would love that I aspire to be.
>> Rachel: That's a good life.
>> Brian: It's better than being Connor.
>> Sarah: Yeah, absolutely.
>> Brian: Know what I mean?
>> Rachel: Eww.
>> Brian: You can't think Connors is worse than Greg.
>> Rachel: You're right. Connor's way worse than Greg.
>> Brian: We're definitely back on the air.
>> Rachel: I want this show to just end with him becoming the President Connor. An entire season where it was just like mirror life of now with Donald Trump but it's Connor.
>> Sarah: Yeah, that would be a great show.
>> Brian: Beautiful. Okay. So Okay, we're gonna read ships now, the Buzzfeed Shiv, and then we're gonna go to the cut Shiv slash Rachel, you are incredibly intelligent and calculating, but are often forced to prove yourself. Sometimes you say things without thinking, but you're still the least likely person to screw up in your family and or a friend group. These are all these are actually true.
>> Sarah: Yeah, I can actually see this.
>> Brian: But you always present yourself as calm and in control, no matter the situation. But it doesn't say that, but because, like we know what happened at the dinner party. She dragged Tom out, had to collect herself, because then she just she spilled the beans.
>> Rachel: She can't stand injustice.
>> Brian: That's why she's the liberal. That's why she's the liberal in the family family. Yeah. Okay. So now the Cut's version of Shive, which I have I actually have not read yet. I only wrote read Rome's. You are Shiv Roy. Yes, Queen, huh? You are an empowered hashtag girl boss. You understand that a woman's place is in the boardroom, not the kitchen. I love it. The patriarchy needs to be toppled, and you are the one to do it. Lean in you powerful goddess and take what's rightfully yours. This is going well so far. So yeah, I'm getting a little pissed because you know Rome is cool too.
>> Rachel: You're just mad because you're a slime puppy.
>> Brian: Ok shut up Jerry. Only you can stand up for the brave women who have suffered under the fist of toxic masculinity and who dare to raise their voices and say, Me too. Unless, of course, they present obstacles to your own ascension, in which case the credibility must be undermined at all costs. Use whatever resources are at your disposal. So fucking true. I love it because that that scene at the park is brutal. And here's the thing, though. Everything she's saying is true, but she uses it... so just her wiles, or just like it's like she that
>> Rachel: It was a fantastic scene.
>> Sarah: It was so good, so, so fucked up, too, because, like I wanted her to talk the woman out of testifying which is just like bad.
>> Brian: What she's saying is true. It's like you are gonna that you are going to go through some shit. But you know, you're wanting her to do something against the greater good.
>> Rachel: The part that wasn't true was when she was like, We're going to take this down from the inside. You have no assurance that that's accurate.
>> Brian: Yes. So are you saying you don't trust that Shiv would do that?
>> Rachel: She was making a promise before she knew She... she thought she was next in line. Maybe. But she knew that she was on shaky ground with a promise like that. And like, even if she did get in there and, like, start to take things down like maybe she would get rid of Moe Lester.
>> Sarah: But incentive would she have really fuck things up?
>> Rachel: She's not gonna get rid of her brothers.
>> Brian: Yeah, What a great moment in the show, when you just for episodes. You know, someone is named Moe and they just hold that in their pocket, and then they just say... And then when the wife's like Moe? (laughter) It's so good. Okay, that's beautiful. But I will say the only thing I will say that is that at that point, Rhea was in line so she might have actually acquiesced to taking it down from the inside, which is which is kind of that idea is kind of bolstered by the fact she left after, you know, after all this came out, but anyway, that my 10 cents? I think Shiv does have a modicum of integrity. But when it comes to succeeding eponymously.. Yeah, she kind of does the cut, you know? Who is this Anna Silman? Alright, so we don't have the Buzzfeed Willa because we couldn't find it. We couldn't answer the questions correctly. Which maybe Sarah, you're not a total Willa?
>> Rachel: Maybe you're a little bit more calculating than you think you are.
>> Sarah: I'm embracing it. Willa could be a Libra.
>> Brian: You're a Willa with a rising Shiv. Ok. You're Willa. You're an artist, babe. Yeah, you were destined to create You're the voice of your generation. Or, at the very least, the voice of a generation. Much like the titular sand from your underrated Broadway debut Sands, you're limitless Both tough and soft, Microscopic and vast. You contain multitudes And also possibly sand mites. Which Greg inferred on for you two. Yeah. Don't let the haters get you down. That's how it ends. That's it.
>> Sarah: That's great. I love it. It's actually not that bad. I'm super into it.
>> Brian: Yeah, Yeah, this might have been written before the last episode. I'm gonna go ahead and say it Was before she tosses the iPad off of the boat because of her reviews.
>> Rachel: That was a completely understandable response.
>> Brian: Yeah, I loved how she responded. I would have kept reading. I would have masochistically just dug in and just hated on...
>> Rachel: That sounds healthy (laughter)
>> Brian: And perhaps have done something more than that. Anyway (laughter)
>> Rachel: I just went back to the very beginning of my Gmail. So I signed up for I signed up for Gmail in 2005.
>> Brian: Holy shit.
>> Rachel: A long time ago. It was probably before you were born, but yeah, my first very first email was an email to some friends of mine sharing, like the equivalent of a buzzfeed quiz. But I think I was on myspace. I just like, I love these things so much. So whatever we're doing here is, like, really tickling your nerve.
>> Brian: Yeah, Yeah, a myspace quiz. Just the same thing. With like creepier photos, Probably.
>> Rachel: Who knows what MySpace was then?
>> Brian: Jeez, I don't know. I don't even want to go back there. Okay? Any last thoughts about Succession before we could have you guys read?
>> Sarah: No, I think, Yeah, I think we covered a lot.
>> Brian: I think we covered that.
>> Rachel: People should be grateful that we went in this depth.
>> Brian: And honestly, if you don't, if you don't know what we were talking about, that's your problem. Go back. I can't believe it. Also, I'm like, you should go back and watch and figure it out for yourself.
>> Sarah: And that we ruined it for you. (laughter) None of this means anything out of context.
>> Brian: It's encoded. Yeah. Yeah, it's fine. We had a good time. Alright? Yeah. So who wants to read first?
>> Rachel: Do you want long first or short?
>> Sarah: Let's do long first.
>> Brian: Okay, great.
>> Rachel: So I thought I would read something that I wrote for another reading series, since this is a show about reading series and we're talking about our reading series, including other things. So this is what I read at Breadcrumbs, which is a great reading series.
>> Sarah: It is. We both read there. Yeah. Great reading. Serious Great journal hosted by Bob Raymonda.
>> Brian: Yeah, who I actually think we're having on the podcast.
>> Rachel: He's very sweet.
>> Sarah: Oh, he's great. Oh, also, I did want to properly shout out that the next Genre Reassignment show is on Monday the 21st of October.
>> Brian: Which actually is one of the greatest names for reading series. That's so good.
>> Rachel: So Breadcrumbs is cool because, like you guys, they do a web journal as well a za reading series. So they do a lot of publishing as well.
>> Brian: Oh nice.
>> Rachel: This is published on Breadcrumbs Mag dot com and then I also read it at the series. I have to say I think I have some. I've revised it since this. So this might be a less good version. But that's okay.
==================
Read "In the Gully" by Rachel Lyon on Breadcrumbs mag
https://breadcrumbsmag.com/blog/413
==================
>> Brian: Wow.
>> Sarah: I love that story.
>> Rachel: Thank you for letting me read that whole story.
>> Brian: That was probably the best thing that's been read on this podcast. That was really fucking good.
>> Rachel: Well, it's all Bob's fault because he's sort of like that's the way that Breadcrumbs works is like he, like, you respond to something else because it's a breadcrumb. You're following a trail of breadcrumbs, you know? Yeah, I wrote it for that podcast.
>> Brian: Where did that come from? I'm curious. Like why that story?
>> Rachel: I should probably more be articulate about my work.
>> Brian: No, no, I'm just I'm honestly curious. There's a lot of stuff in there that I identify with.
>> Rachel: I read a lot about substance abuse.
>> Brian: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Rachel: I was thinking about I, like I spent some time right after college and no right after my first year of college. So I was still only, like 19 in Colorado. And you, child, just like hanging out. So that was like the landscape I was thinking about, but yeah.
>> Brian: Yeah, it's definitely despite the fact that they're both psychoactive substances LSD or shrooms whatever they were doing, I forgot a few actually direct.
>> Rachel: They were doing acid.
>> Brian: Okay. Yeah, I forgot. And Oxy are very, very, very different subjects, you know, on the contrast was like, Really That was really good. I don't know. I'm just kind of speechless right now.
>> Rachel: Thank you. That's so sweet.
>> Brian: Yeah. I mean, it also resonates with me. I mean, like, people on people listen to show know that I'm sober too. Um, So, like, that's a very important subject to me.
>> Rachel: Oh. I didn't know that. It is for me too.
>> Brian: I studied addictions, and I was a psych major in college at Maryland. And it doesn't save you apparently.
>> Rachel: Studying doesn't save you. It's so weird.
>> Brian: But yeah, thank you very much for that. So you said you're still working on it. Do you plan to do something else with it or with that story?
>> Rachel: Yeah, I revised it since then. I changed some things.
>> Brian: Because you publish it in Breadcrumbs, like, is it? Do you want to, like, do something else with it?
>> Rachel: I'm working on my short story collection. I've been revising a lot of stories recently.
>> Brian: And that's the next thing you wanna put out. Is the collection.
>> Rachel: Yeah, Fingers crossed.
>> Brian: Yeah, that's yeah, shit. That was fucking amazing. Okay, so, Sarah.
>> Sarah: Okay?
>> Brian: No, do it.
>> Sarah: So some of these poems were also being published in breadcrumbs or have already been publishing Breadcrumbs.
>> Brian: Beautiful. That's good omens.
>> Sarah: Monica Lewis was a guest poetry editor for them, and she accepted a few of these. She's great. I love her work.
>> Brian: Yeah, she's been at Animal Riot more than once, I think? Just once? Yeah, and where we want to get her on the podcast. But it's just been kind of...
>> Sarah: Yeah. She's read with us. She's really good. Alright, so I'm gonna read a few poems. This one is called "Inheritance".
===============
Read "Inheritance" by Sarah Bridgins on Breadcrumbs
https://breadcrumbsmag.com/blog/433
===============
>> Rachel: I love your work so much.
>> Sarah: I love that painting of Lisa Rinna. It's really good.
>> Rachel: Do you remember the name of the painter? I'm gonna look them up so I can...
>> Sarah: Oh, she's fantastic. Yeah. Laura Collins? Yeah, she's great.
>> Brian: I feel like there's a genre of poetry in which, like really heavy information is tucked into humor, you know?
>> Sarah: Yeah.
>> Brian: And I don't know, like, and it's not often that I hear it, but like it that I like. I don't know.
>> Sarah: Yeah, Yeah, that's like my favorite thing.
>> Brian: That's your deal.
>> Sarah: Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting over a cold, so I feel like my voice is a little nasal, but we'll deal with that.
>> Rachel: Laura Collins. The Real Housewives Pointing Fingers series. Sarah has one of these paintings, and also our friend TK has another painting of a real housewife pointing. I can't speak anymore.
>> Sarah: It's the realest piece of art that I ever bought.
>> Brian: Oh, shit, yeah.
>> Sarah: She has a series of Anna Wintour crossing her legs.
>> Brian: They're, like, not caricatures. They're not that, like tumescent, but they're like I'm trying to describe him for listeners.They're like they're like, variegated like characters. Kind of like I don't know, there is great.
>> Rachel: They're captured great moments.
>> Sarah: Okay, this one is called "31".
===================
Read "31" by Sarah Bridgins on Breadcrumbs
https://breadcrumbsmag.com/blog/520
===================
>> Brian: I love these, I will admit, like there's a certain disdain I have for poetry.
>> Sarah: Most people do.
>> Brian: But the poetry I tend to like is the more direct Not like because yours isn't really even narrative. It's almost like their statements, you know, like in a way. But they are there. They are narrative in a way too. But I do. I do like like they're just like these crystals of, like, information, you know?
>> Sarah: Yeah. I tend to like stuff that's not so abstract.
>> Brian: Yeah, yeah. I'm all for it. Yeah, I And and it also makes me really want to know a lot of the stuff. That's kind of like beneath the surface of what you're talking about, you know? Oh, yeah, which is like a good, I like that. Like, I don't know, because it could be a story.
>> Sarah: It hints at a story.
>> Brian: Not in a way. Yeah, exactly.
====================
Be sure to check out "Full Disclosure" by Sarah Bridgins in her forthcoming collection "Death and Exes"
====================
>> Sarah: Oh, the next poem I read quotes you.
>> Rachel: Woahhh.
>> Brian: I love grief thin, by the way, that's great.
>> Rachel: We have poor thin, rich thin, and grief thin.
>> Brian: And also, Real Housewives are on two out of three. We should have had you guys start reading earlier. We'll have you back.
>> Sarah: Great. Alright. "34".
=====================
Be sure to check out "34" by Sarah Bridgins by in her forthcoming collection "Death and Exes"
=====================
>> Brian: Damn, you are fucking sad. (laughter)
>> Sarah: Yeah. That's the title of my book "Death and Exes"
>> Brian: So am I. Katie knows I am, too. Before you guys got here, I was literally sitting on the couch being like, Why am I so sad?
>> Rachel: Maybe you should get a pink velvet couch. (laughter)
>> Sarah: Yeah just buy more shit. Buy more shit and watch dumb TV. Eat garbage. That's my solution.
>> Brian: My values are too transcendent.
>> Sarah: It's pretty effective.
>> Brian: Did you just say Love Island?
>> Rachel: See? There you go.
>> Brian: Oh what about Love Island? Oh. My values aren't totally transcendent. I'm a recidivist. I need something. I just quit smoking.
>> Sarah: Oh wow.
>> Brian: Uh Katie has been a huge enabler for me with her e cigarette. And I gotta tell you... Love Island. I should have picked that up when I was on, like, Day three. And I wanted to tear my hair out.
>> Rachel: Yeah, I feel like trash TV is really good for replacing addiction. They should study that in psychology.
>> Brian: Well, speaking of acid, they're doing a lot of studies about getting people to realize they're, I guess, like some sort of like hyper awareness. They're using it for alcoholics. It was on 60 minutes, which everyone knows now it's a fucking real thing, you know.
>> Rachel: Is it acid or mushroom?
>> Brian: Acid.
>> Rachel: I thought they were using psilocybin for this sort of thing.
>> Brian:I think they like just as easily could I have taken both before. I will tell you from my own experience. I took acid for the second time when I was 19. And it was a week after the first time I was at Bonnaroo, and in that moment I was I took two tabs. I was so high. It was unfucking real. But I knew I was an addict like I was 100% sure. And so I'll tell you that it works. In that sense, it didn't stop me, but yeah, but yeah, Sarah, those were fucking awesome.
>> Sarah: Thank you.
>> Brian: Thank you so much for being on.
>> Sarah: Oh, my God. Thank you for having us
>> Rachel: It was our pleasure.
>> Brian: Yeah gotta do it again. Yeah, definitely got to do it again.
OK, that's it For today's episode. If you like what you heard, please subscribe and review on whichever platform you're listening. You can get in touch with us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at @animalriotpress books or through our website animalriotpress.com. This has been the 40th episode of the Animal Riot Podcast brought to you by Animal Riot Press, which I just realized I probably say, like 1500 times in the closer Animal Riot okay with me or host Brian Birnbaum and featuring Rachel Lyon. Singular Rachel Lyon. And Sarah Bridgins. Our transcripts for our Deaf and hard of hearing animals are provided by Jonathan Kay, also known as Jon Kay, also known as JK... What Up EC Killaz. Anyways were produced by Katie Rainey, without whom we'd be merely three of Shakespeare's 1000 monkeys banging on a typewriter.