Episode 4: The Natural State
January 12th, 2019
Hosted by Brian Birnbaum
Guests: Lizzie & Sean Casteel
Produced by Katie Rainey
Transcripts by Jonathan Kay
With this second installment of Animals Hit the Road, we bring our bunny-talents to the house of Sean and Lizzie Casteel, who live in one of Little Rock's sublation of suburbs. Through the hazy lens of Arkansas' own Rocktown Apple Pie Bourbon, the Casteel power couple takes us on a tour of Via, their startup graphic design company, whose early success includes designing the Animal Riot Logo and winning a contract with The Arkansas School for the Deaf Foundation. While taking shots every time a secret southern word is spoken, the conversation winds through the sprawling arts and literature scene in The Natural State's largest city, and we discuss plans to bring Animal Riot to Little Rock and uplifting the artistic culture therein. Ultimately, the conversation turns to the state of art as it relates to commerce and community within not just Little Rock, but Arkansas and the South as a whole.
>> Brian: Welcome to the Animal Riot Hour brought to you by Animal Riot, a literary press for "books that matter". This marks the second episode of "Animals Hit the Road" during which we will be touring some cities, talking to some interesting people about some interesting things.
Over the next couple of episodes, we will be here in the deep south talking all things literature, art, and collaboration in an effort to shed light on communities often overlooked when it comes to art and culture. In this episode, we are sitting down with the designers of the Animal Riot logo, Lizzie and Sean Casteel, owners of a local Arkansas business "Via Design and Development". Lizzie and Sean have both a deep love for all things Arkansas and an insider's knowledge on what it will take to support and enhance the artistic and literary communities here.
This hour's brand of fuckery is brought to you by Arkansas' patois. Katie, our producer, and I have picked out a series of secret Arkansas / southern words or idioms. If Lizzie or Sean say any of these words, they must take a drink or here by face terrible karmic wrath. This is the challenge... and the words are: "y'all", that's the first one. "Oh gosh" which I have actually defined as an orgasmic cry for existential assistance... I don't know if that's accurate. Next one, "mylanta". I'm not going to begin to try to describe that one. "Tumped", which means fell over...tumped over... tumped over. "The natural state", which is Arkansas. This is the natural state. "Woo Pig Sooie" which is the battle cry of the Arkansas Razorbacks. And "hogs", plural. So Lizzie and Sean do not know that this is the challenge. So everytime that they say one of these words, we are going to take a drink and we will get drunk by doing this.
Right now we are here with the beautiful, young couple that designed the Animal Riot logo coming soon with the launch of our website. Our producer, Katie, has her sister here... who can't keep it together right now (laughter)... and her (Katie’s) brother-in-law Sean, who is a little more composed. He's just got a big grin on his face.
>> Sean: I'm just watching the show.
>> Brian: You guys want to introduce yourselves? Think you're up for that?
>> Lizzie: Oh absolutely...
>> Sean: Oh ok, I'll go first.
>> Lizzie: Thank you!
>> Sean: So how should I introduce us? Do you want us to introduce us as a company or as individuals?
>> Brian: Do that. Do individuals and then company. That sounds good. Yeah
>> Sean: So my name is Sean Casteel. I was lucky enough to marry Lizzie back when she was Lizzie Rainey. That's Katie's sister.
>> Brian: Awww, awww.
>> Katie: That's gross
>> Lizzie: This is supposed to be about yourself, not us.
>> Brian: It's romantic.
>> Sean: I'm just saying how, why I'm here. Come on. I need an origin story. Haven't you seen those movies?
>> Lizzie: It's fine, just go.
>> Sean: Ok, so anyways, I was lucky enough to marry her and so through that I was lucky enough to work with Animal Riot and that's how I ended up here. So we work at Via, it's our company that we made. It's graphic design, web design, web presence, and basically all things good looking. Is what we try to do.
>> Lizzie: Digitally
>> Brian: That's a good... that's a good tagline.
>> Sean: Digitally good looking. All things good looking?
>> Lizzie: Oh no, it's not.
>> Sean: It might be now
>> Lizzie: It might be now
>> Sean: We will write that down and review sans alcohol.
>> Brian: There needs to be a word for, what's prejudice against ugly people? I don't know
>> Sean: (chuckles) Yeah, I don't know
>> Brian: That would be very offensive to them. That's all I'm saying
>> Lizzie: Sure, I'm going to Google it
(laughter)
>> Sean: What, prejudice against ugly people? I'm sure it's just called society I think
>> Lizzie: I'm sure it's a thing.
>> Brian: (laughs) Misogyny. Do you want to say something Lizzie, about yourself? You know, say something interesting.
>> Lizzie: Yes, my name is Lizzie Casteel, formerly Lizzie Rainey. I am Katie's sister of...
>> Brian: After you went into the witness protection program?
>> Lizzie: No
>> Sean: Oh why did you say that? Now we have to move again. Brian, come on. You're out.
>> Lizzie: Oh yeah, I got married. That's how I am now Lizzie Casteel. Yikes, I apologize. I got married to... (chuckles) see you can't be sweet. I can't go after you because I feel so weird being on a microphone right now that all I think about is poking fun at you. (laughs)
>> Sean: That's terrible. That's so mean.
>> Lizzie: So you were like "I was lucky enough to marry Lizzie Casteel".
>> Brian: She doesn't feel the same way
>> Sean: Wow, I'm learning a lot today
>> Lizzie: No, I was just about to say "and I got stuck with this guy"
>> Brian: First, let's talk about what you guys do... Don't worry, we got that under control
>> Lizzie: Y'all can edit
>> Brian: Anyways... ohhhhh everyone take a drink
>> Lizzie: Ah, was y'all one of them? (laughter). Ok taking a drink
>> Sean: This is super sweet. I got to figure out something to cut this with. This is so... I should have got a coke or something.
>> Brian: We are drinking apple pie bourbon. Rocktown. And now I'm just plugging it. It's very sweet but it's 100 proof so we are getting our jollies.
>> Lizzie: You know what's very good with it... If you care to have a warm drink...
>> Sean: Talk over the mic
>> Lizzie: Ha sorry...we have some apple cider and that's a delicious mix
>> Sean: We also have some hot chocolate
>> Brian: Hot chocolate and apple pie bourbon. Perfect, let's do it (laughter).
>> Lizzie: That's going to be disgusting. Chocolate apple... sounds disgusting.
>> Sean: That actually sounds real gross. I'll do anything to make this taste better though...
>> Lizzie: Well you're the one that chose a poor drink.
>> Brian: That just became a part of the challenge
>> Sean: What?
>> Brian: To just drink it (chuckles). Ok so you guys talked a little bit about your company so let's talk about it a little more. A little more in depth.
>> Sean: Ok sure
>> Lizzie: Oh, ok. Great
>> Brian: Because you guys made our logo, so you know, let's get behind the curtain here.
>> Sean: Ok so what would you like to know about us?
>> Brian: I don't know. Everything, anything. How it started, yeah? Let's start with that
>> Lizzie: So back in... when did we really start this idea? Back in January of last year?
>> Sean: No, the idea kind of started even before that when we were working elsewhere and we were thinking of ways to use our talents differently, you know? Especially for me with programming and for web design, and for you were looking for a creative outlet as well. You have always been into art and graphic design. So, really it was just about both of us talking about it enough and working up the confidence to be like "yeah, no we can try it". And then we try and we get good at it...
>> Brian: You said Lizzie said is into art. Were you not? Were you just a graphic designer?
>> Lizzie: (chuckles) Oh my gosh honey.
>> Sean: No, I am artistically challenged to say the least
>> Brian: But you do graphic design. Is it not...
>> Sean: Thanks to the miracles of modern technologies, I am capable... I can see things but I have absolutely no training or any way to make my hand to produce the thing.
>> Brian: Do what your head says?
>> Sean: Yeah. So drawing hand-writing is atrocious.
>> Brian: Same. Same
>> Sean: So typing, all of a sudden, "oh look you can read what I'm writing". All of a sudden I can communicate better. Same with art, suddenly I can communicate better through computers.
>> Lizzie: Well you're also not giving yourself enough credit. What we really haven't jumped into that Sean is remarkable at, if you have taken a look at our website it was 100% custom coded from A to Z by Sean.
>> Brian: Ooohhhh
>> Sean: So it is very designy. It's very great. We had a lot of custom features on there and a lot of things that we wanted to convey about us as a company because we really strive to keep things simple, to be straightforward. We want to keep it black and white in a world that I think is way overloaded with pompous people who want to flex their skills and they want to be picky and choosy on who they work with and if people's ideas for their own logos are shitty or they're too small, I guess is what I wrote, and they don't want to work with them. But for us it's like, it's not our logo, it's what you want. And we are going to steer you to hopefully some higher level ideas and...
>> Brian: Mmmhmmm
>> Sean: Well and beyond that, so really if you want to talk about the ideas behind Via, right? Sort of the business ethos, right?
>> Lizzie: Our mission
>> Sean: We were also looking around, as we were doing this and dipping in the business world into this, I guess, sector and looking at who was around. We've always kind of had these opinions about Arkansas, but we kind of feel like Arkansas is underserved by the small business community and by the government as far as helping small business owners.
>> Brian: Do you mean small businesses don't serve the population enough?
>> Sean: Yeah. It's just all around. We feel like there's sort of a dearth of businesses that are more community oriented and more oriented towards, I guess, helping the state of Arkansas really because we love this state and we love the people here. And we're like 46 on every terrible list that there is, you know. Like education, oh 47. We're just happy that Alabama and Mississippi exist so that we can be ranked above somebody.
>> Brian: I think that's what Alabama says about Mississippi.
>> Lizzie: Yeah, pretty much.
>> Sean: I think that's what everyone says about Mississippi.
>> Brian: It's like a line there. No offense to them though, by the way, I gotta say that because our boy George is from Alabama.
>> Lizzie: It's also not anyone who is from there's fault. (laughter)
>> Sean: And it's also not 100% serious. But we are just tired of Arkansas underperforming. It's so beautiful, the people are so kind, and there's so much potential here that we really want to try to help. And really the only way that we can do that is, we thought to make on a scale that we wanted to, is to make a business that enables and empowers other businesses.
>> Lizzie: Yeah
>> Brian: What do they call Arkansas?
>> Sean: The natural state.
>> Brian: Ok. Take a drink. (laughter). That was suggestive.
>> Lizzie: Just to put a cap on our mission, one of our popular things that you will see on social media and on our website is #succeedvia, and our website is www.succeedvia.com, because it is whatever channel a company, especially here locally in Arkansas, may need to succeed. We want to help you get there
>> Brian: Ah, yeah
>> Sean: Yeah
>> Lizzie: We think that in the 21st century, that's digitally nowadays and it's only going to get more so from here.
>> Sean: Absolutely.
>> Lizzie: You need to have an online presence and you need to look good and be confident in what you are going to put out there in order to believe in your business and make a difference
>> Brian: Yeah, I was going to ask you guys. Actually before I ask you about, you know, go more in depth with your company. Cause you said you code (to Sean)...
>> Sean: Yes
>> Brian: And you said it's kind of because of your artistic side and that those kind of overlap when you made this
>> Lizzie: Yes
>> Sean: Yes
>> Brian: And getting Arkansas to a place, you just said it's a digital thing now. So coding is kind of crucial to that
>> Sean: Yes
>> Brian: But where did you come from in an artistic sense, like what did you do before graphic design? What got you into art and what brought that into graphic design?
>> Lizzie: Yeah, well as Katie pointed out not too recently, that I have always had a weird eye for typography and graphic design without not really knowing it. She pointed it out in a couple of childhood drawings that I did that she has
>> Brian: Wow. Katie facilitates everything
>> Lizzie: Haha pretty much. Katie, you know, is a big artist as well, and my mom is and so is Gangie, our grandmother. So I think it's just kind of something that runs in the family. But I was a dancer most of my adolescent life
>> Brian: So was Gangie.
>> Lizzie: Yes, she was.
>> Brian: Gangie is the matriarch of the family
>> Lizzie: Yes, Gangie is the matriarch
>> Brian: And she will be on the podcast, I'm just being told that right now. I kind of knew that
>> Lizzie: Gangie's going to be on the podcast? Oh that's going to be adorable. That's going to be great.
>> Brian: We just have to get her up for it. That's the only thing
>> Lizzie: Oh she'll be fine. She's going to be so cute.
>> Brian: She'll do it. She is so cute. Have you guys ever seen the Allen Iverson "we talkin about practice" thing?
>> Sean: Oh yeah, for sure.
>> Brian: I showed her that and she was cracking up.
>> Sean: "Practice. We talkin bout practice"
>> Brian: And she's just giggling and she's like "oh he has had just about enough" (laughter)
>> Sean: Oh my god
>> Brian: Because she saw the shirt that my friend Devin gave me and it just says "we talkin about practice". He gave that to me and Katie was wearing it the other day
>> Sean: That's so good. I have not thought about Allen Iverson in about 15 years so that's great.
>> Brian: Oh god, yeah it's great.
>> Sean: I loved Allen Iverson
>> Brian: But anyway, ok yeah so that's cool. So you did a lot of stuff. It wasn't just one thing.
>> Lizzie: Yes. And so when I actually started a full time job right now, it was when I was introduced to the glorious Adobe Creative Cloud (laughter). And that's when I really understood that graphic design was a career and a booming career at that and I just dedicated as much time as I can, we both have, to learning as much as possible and continuing to learn. It's exhausting but it's...
>> Sean: And like we were saying, it came from looking at Arkansas' design, the local companies here, and seeing that it's just so clearly local. You would see a national ad run and then you'd see a local ad run and you just knew the local ad because it was terrible. The graphics were bad.
>> Brian: Yeah, dogshit?
>> Sean: It was just so bad. And so then when you see that all the time, you may not think about it but then you start to think less of local companies. It just happens. Visually, you just pick all of that up. So when you see terrible logos then you start to associate that with local companies. And then if you had a bad experience then it's just things that local businesses do that drive customers away. That's why locally you have businesses that look the best are the ones that do the best. Companies like Middleton, who invests a ton in their ad campaigns, all of the car companies here locally.
>> Lizzie: Lablaly here is a good one
>> Sean: Yeah, Lablaly does some fantastic work as well.
>> Brian: It's funny you just said a car company because I was about to say I feel like that no matter what city you go to some car dealership is going to have the shittiest commercial that's ever been created.
>> Lizzie: Yes
>> Sean: Oh yes, for sure. And it's always... and here in the south...
>> Brian: Some dude who looks like he's going to be indicted on a MeToo charge or something (laughter)
>> Sean: It's definitely different in the northeast too because you guys have the quintessential used car salesmen there.
>> Brian: Ha ha, yeah
>> Sean: You have the true blue, "ok I have to check my wallet when I leave here" you know what I mean? Did I accidentally sign something when I went in? Here you have the guy who used to sell ATVs in his front yard and has now graduated to the side of the highway and has an official Honda dealership and it's like 12 cars and it's named like "Bert's Garage".
>> Brian: Burt Reynolds. "Let me sell you Hondas" (chuckles)
>> Sean: Yeah, and when you see that, again it creates this idea that local companies are crap and that Arkansas companies are crap. And we feel like that permeates the culture of Arkansas. A lot of times a lot of people aren't proud to be from Arkansas, especially when they leave this state. Here, internally, we are all proud Arkansans.
>> Brian: Mhmm. Katie's looking at you right now like "uh yeah that's how I feel"
>> Sean: Hey, when she's in town she's got it right? She'll call the hogs at some point. You just got to get her...
>> Brian: Ah, drink!
>> Sean: Damn!
>> Lizzie: Oh, dang it
>> Brian: (laughs) I love it.
>> Sean: That's on the list. We have no sports teams. There's only one. There's absolutely nothing.
>> Brian: No, you don't. And they're not even good. I'm sorry
>> Lizzie: No, you don't have to apologize. We are very well aware.
>> Sean: No. We were terrible this year.
>> Brian: You play in the SEC so I understand, but...
>> Sean: But we're also dominate in track and field but nobody cares (Lizzie laughs)
>> Brian: I care. I ran cross country, that's almost track and field.
>> Sean: That's almost track and field ha ha, nice
>> Brian: It's almost track and field. We warmed up on the track.
>> Sean: Now ok, speaking of which, I watched some cross country the other day. Were you a shorty shorts guy or an underwear guy?
>> Lizzie: Can I ask why the fuck you were watching cross country? (laughs)
>> Sean: It was on the news, they were talking about a local thing and there was some story. And I was like, "are there some people running in underwear"?
>> Lizzie: I just need to go on record that I don't remember this
>> Sean: Ok
>> Brian: You know our roommate runs marathons, right? Our old roommate Devin? Exactly, you got it.
>> Lizzie: Just saying. Have you seen the OA?
>> Sean: Ok honey (laughter)
>> Brian: Yes we have. He got me watching marathons (laughter)
>> Sean: Why? Come on you have to focus.
>> Brian: (laughs) It's like when you're in her mind it's like everything is interesting, you just have to follow it to it's logical term, you know what I mean? (laughter)
>> Lizzie: Now I'm going to have some good stuff to edit (laughs)
>> Sean: This is all recording
>> Brian: (laughs) Yeah but don't worry, we got you. We are going to make you look so terrible
>> Sean: That's not going to be hard to do. To go back to the ad thing, I did not want to disparage local companies. There are tons that are doing great. Even the local car dealerships that are doing fantastic work
>> Lizzie: That's what I was going to say
>> Sean: But there's so many that are disadvantaged because they don't have the income to approach the companies that do the high class ads, the high class marketing, and the high class graphics. Because you are doing an intro website for some of these companies is $5,000 and up. You can't get anything for less than a grand at some places
>> Brian: So that was my other question. Do you guys think it's possible to start a company without someone who can code? Any sort of company, can you think of one? Ok, that's a terrible question (laughter). There's obviously a shit ton of service industry shit. I don't know how to phrase that question. I just feel like coding...
>> Sean: Do you mean a company that can scale?
>> Brian: I guess. Maybe that's a good way to frame it.
>> Sean: Because the easy thing and the best thing about coding and software or web design, web programming, whatever you want to do with coding is that it can scale almost to an endless degree as you can see with Facebook, Google, and Apple. You can do anything and go anywhere with these companies. That's obviously one of the big attractions so if you are talking about something that scales to that degree then I don't think it's possible to do without already being someone who could make a large company on your own.
>> Brian: Right. You at least have to have a platform to sell it online. At the least. Because brick and mortar is not enough these days.
>> Sean: Yeah.
>> Brian: But anyways I was just curious about that because you guys are just kind of fortunate as we were too. Honestly, Animal Riot is the same way. We had someone who quit Amazon and came to us and said let's do this. And without him we would have had to figure out the whole backend thing by ourselves.
>> Sean: Oh, supply chain? Yeah, brutal
>> Brian: I mean, Katie can make a site on Squarespace, no problem. But to get distribution down and all of that stuff, I don't think we could have done that.
>> Sean: Yeah, it's tough.
>> Lizzie: We are also fortunate to be living in Arkansas and to have the market that we do because it's very...
>> Brian: Less tapped?
>> Lizzie: There's a lot of opportunity. Yes, it's less tapped. And we have a lot of chances to meet people where they are and show them that it is not a scary process and it doesn't have to be overwhelming and there's an easy way to understand all of the files that you need and the pictures you need and why you need these things. It's a small example but I think the world, to some people, especially in rural communities, that some people don't really consider. They don't fully have the access to the internet or to any sort of technology that people in larger cities do and so it's crucial to meet them where they are and help them get educated.
>> Brian: Is that ever frustrating though?
>> Sean: Yeah, totally.
>> Lizzie: Yes, it is.
>> Brian: Take it from someone who cannot deal with technology to save their life. Like seriously, you know, I can't even rake some leaves as you guys saw (laughter)
>> Sean: Ha, that's pretty low tech though.
>> Brian: (laughs) I don't know, I don't know. When you get an abstract mind like mine, you start counting the tines on the rake and you lose yourself... without any drugs in my system, mind you (laughs)
>> Lizzie: You know who I was just thinking about when you mentioned if it's frustrating, you know, meet people where they are and work with people at that level. We actually just worked with a client who really wanted to setup this blog because they had a message they wanted to send and they were more focused on what they wanted to write than how to get it online, how to do all of those things, and when you put yourself in that person's shoes and you really empathize with them...
>> Brian: I can commiserate with that
>> Lizzie: Yes, it makes it so much easier. I'm not saying it's all a walk in the park but it makes it wonderful
>> Sean: We want to make it as easy as possible on people. We also want to make the world of great looking things, great looking websites...
>> Brian: Anti ugly people (laughter)
>> Sean: Yeah, for sure. I looked it up, it's called lookism, by the way.
>> Brian: (laughs) Oh beautiful
>> Lizzie: Oh, I feel like that's cheating
>> Sean: Hey, I'm just saying what Wikipedia said.
>> Brian: No, that's it.
>> Sean: So the thing that I wanted to finish about with the businesses and in speaking of budgets and making things approachable is that you can't get in the door with less than $5000 or $1000. So we shoot for, we start websites for $500, $750 depending on what you want.
>> Brian: And so how do you guys do that that other people can't
>> Sean: We just have less overhead.
>> Brian: You don't have an office, you don't have other employees...
>> Lizzie: You're in our office
>> Sean: Exactly, we keep our costs low so that your costs can be low. We meet you where you are so that you don't have to pay for our office while we work on your stuff.
>> Brian: So basically, you guys made our logo on this table?
>> Lizzie: We did! I designed it a few times here
>> Sean: Yeah, more or less. A couple at the other offices as well. On the couch outside. All of the place really.
>> Brian: Wow. Do you guys interact with the arts and culture scene here?
>> Lizzie: Yes
>> Sean: Yeah, we definitely started to. And it's especially easy thanks to social media. Which we are on
>> Lizzie: Yes. Which we are on. On a lot of things so go follow us... and hashtag plug. We do interact with the arts community here, both in Maumelle and Little Rock, online. Mostly for now, just as we are so new that we are still trying to get our feet on the ground and make sure that we are ready to work for our clients because that's the most important thing.
>> Sean: Exactly
>> Lizzie: But we have made a lot of interesting contacts this year that we are excited for 2019 to hopefully participate in a couple of fairs that are going on here in the city. Maybe do an exhibit booth or two and get to know people a little bit more, get to know vendors a little bit more, and to offer a more collaborative experience.
>> Sean: It will also be a part of the next phase, early next year we are going to be adding photography to our services. We figure we need to get out there and interact once we are a little more stable.
>> Brian: Which one of you guys is the photographer?
>> Sean: It's going to be me, for sure. I've always been... You don't want to see my phone. It's just photos of the dogs but I'm always...
>> Brian: Yeah, that's the same for us
>> Lizzie: Yeah, especially at first
>> Sean: I have always been obsessed with documentation. I'm a historian by nature. So photos and preserving things kind of appeals to me. So we have been working on it for the past 4 or 5 months, the photography base and foundation so the next thing is to get out there and do it. And you know, practicing. So we will be practicing and once it's good enough then we will be offering it as a service to clients. We're not going to be just winging it.
>> Brian: A festival is an interesting idea. We're looking to start our own festival. Katie is bugging our director of the MFA program at Sarah Lawrence, to do a Prose festival because they only do poetry and poetry is inferior to prose.
>> Sean: Hey, you know what? If you really want to pitch it, we'll design a banner...
>> Lizzie: Oh yeah, I can design the flier
>> Brian: Ohhhh, on the air we are just...digging gold.
>> Lizzie: ...some cool double exposure, something trippy.
>> Sean: When you try to pitch, we'll work with you and design for you and you'll have something a little extra
>> Brian: Our producer is nodding her head and jutting her lip.
>> Lizzie: The universal approval
>> Sean: I call that the Winston Churchill. That's what we call that one. Where's the whiskey?
>> Brian: We will fight them on the fields. (laughter) We will... I don't know. Where's the cigar, I'm drinking. This is a question for you guys
>> Sean: Ok
>> Brian: Would you guys say that you are a moderate, or what kind of reading do you do? Do you read every day, once a week, once a month?
>> Lizzie: Hmmm, no
>> Sean: Reading in what regard? In what capacity?
>> Brian: A book. Like an actual physical book. Or on your Kindle
>> Lizzie: Like pleasure or for work?
>> Brian: For pleasure.
>> Sean: For pleasure?
>> Brian: Yes, yes
>> Lizzie: Huh, never (chuckles)
>> Sean: Ummmm
>> Brian: Or for learning that doesn't directly have to do with work.
>> Sean: It's kind of hard when you start a new business because you're learning every day everything and everything you read is so oriented towards work that it's... like if I'm reading anything then I'm somehow looking for some way to apply it to our company and to the way that we do things. So it's hard to read for pleasure because even when you're reading for pleasure, in the background you're reading...
>> Brian: Thinking of how you can use it?
>> Sean: Yeah, yeah.
>> Brian: Honestly it's been hard for us even for the last three months with starting Animal Riot. It's been very difficult. I think I'm reading my second or third book for pleasure since starting Animal Riot. I'm reading Hermione Hoby's "Neon in Daylight". I'm going to plug that right now because it's actually really fucking good
>> Sean: Yeah
>> Brian: Yeah, it's amazing.
>> Lizzie: That's funny. I just read an article today that said that book was really good. So that's funny
>> Brian: Oh, really? Where was it? I'm curious
>> Lizzie: I couldn't tell you
>> Sean: Buzzfeed.
>> Lizzie: No
>> Sean: I was kidding (laughter)
>> Lizzie: I'm going to be honest, the article was from Pinterest because I was just browsing and it recommended some books to me, so... I'm just saying
>> Brian: Hey, you gotta do what you gotta do. She's gotta get her stuff out however she can
>> Lizzie: Whatever article that was, Pinterest is working for her
>> Brian: It's very good. She's a wordsmith. Anyway, the follow up to that question is how would people that are as busy as you, which are a lot of people our age, start reading more for pleasure? And not just that, but books that we are going to put out may be a little more difficult sometimes. Not necessarily, but sometimes.
>> Sean: Well one of the things that I was going to say was if you ask me the question about how much literature I have consumed, it's different from how many books I read because I do have tons of audiobooks. And I do constantly listen to them
>> Brian: That counts. Even if it's a different brain skill. What's the difference to us (laughs)
>> Sean: Yeah, even if it's rereading. I can't tell you how many times I listened to "Dances with Dragons", the last Game of Thrones, just because when I was traveling and I was going around places it's like when I just play music real fast... I'm like "oh crap, I forgot to play a song".
>> Brian: I'm assuming that's fantasy? I used to be obsessed with fantasy when I was a young adolescent.
>> Sean: Yeah. If you watched Game of Thrones, it's the last book. It's good
>> Brian: I should probably know that but as a person that reads fucking snobby literary fiction, I just don't know.
>> Sean: George RR Martin...
>> Brian: I read the first one. I read the first one. I liked it
>> Sean: He's got really good stories. Him as a writer, he just takes his time a little too much. He talks about food for pages (laughter) and I get it that it's your aesthetic. Not everyone can be Hemingway but you don't have to go the other way.
>> Brian: Oh god.
>> Sean: Why, do you not like Hemingway?
>> Lizzie: No, we just touched a sore spot
>> Sean: You know what's funny is that I have never met a girl that actually likes Hemingway. That's not a sexist thing but I just never...
>> Lizzie: I'm sorry but I... have to agree
>> Brian: Well I think that you're talking about a modern woman. A modern woman, it's hard to find someone that likes Hemingway. I would agree with that
>> Sean: I could see because of his approach to masculinity
>> Brian: Why? Katie is asking me "why" in sign language because she knows it, and I can read it because my parents are deaf.
>> Sean: Ha ha, because she knows it
>> Brian: You just asked me why you don't like Hemingway and why modern women don't like Hemingway. I would say it's A because it's viewed as misogynistic and I would say that's true to a large extent. But it was also a product of the time.
>> Sean: Yes, I don't blame him for sure.
>> Brian: I think he was speaking for a lot of men of the time and that is misogyny at this point. And also in Katie's view, maybe I'm speaking strictly for her, but maybe other people think this, but she thinks she's boring. (laughter) Katie is raising the roof as if I just killed that response.
>> Lizzie: All 10 fingers, raising the roof.
>> Sean: Oh no, that's what I mean also. And it can be either or it can be both for people. But those are which I have always heard. And I don't particularly like Hemingway, he's just really easy to...because everyone who reads Hemingway is like is that all you're going to tell me?
>> Brian: Lizzie do you have an opinion on Hemingway or have you never read him?
>> Lizzie: I have read him. I would kind of agree that I find him a little boring. I just didn't... whenever I was reading a Hemingway novel, I never remembered really about the novel. And I feel like any good story, you just would remember. I always relate this back to... to be totally honest I just relate it to Harry Potter (laughter). I think no matter when or where that book it stands a little bit right now, I know it's still very new in terms of how long literature has been alive, but I think that Harry Potter fills you up and enriches your life and there are other novels that do the same thing
>> Sean: That's true actually.
>> Lizzie: For me "The Book Thief" by Markus Zusak is one of my favorite novels. It's an amazing, amazing book.
>> Brian: I have heard of the title
>> Lizzie: I would read that over and over again. It's just amazing
>> Sean: It's definitely more mainstream for sure
>> Brian: Is it commercial? Or like genre fiction?
>> Lizzie: It was actually made into a movie too.
>> Brian: Ok
>> Lizzie: It's set in WW2 and it's told from the perspective
>> Brian: Ohhhh someone steals a manuscript. I remember the movie. I did not see the movie but I know what you're talking about now
>> Lizzie: It's this family that hides a Jewish person during WW2 in their basement and it's this little girl told from her perspective and death's perspective. So it's pretty neat. But I would say, just to turn it back on your original question as far as reading when you're trying to setup a new business like this, I think that really one of the most important things to read for pleasure, which is important for everyone to do throughout their lives, because it gives you a mental break. It releases you from your current story, the current life that you live, and puts you in a new one and you get a minute of solitude and a minute to be creative and to think however you want about the same story that someone else read and you're still going to find a different..and I think that's the wonder that books bring and even if they're an audiobook, whatever it is, you're digesting it in a way that's completely different than whoever else.
>> Sean: That's true, yeah
>> Brian: That's a good point that you brought up because my friend who is a doctor, and doctors have no fucking time, and he's at the end of his residency, right? He can only listen to audiobooks at this point. Like it's not even just a time thing, it's the bandwidth. He has to actually listen to it at this point. It's tough
>> Lizzie: And that's the tough part about it. So I think part of reading and something that I hope to do in 2019, #resolution, is to read more and I think part of that (laughter)...
>> Brian: I feel like resolutions are even harder to keep than if you keep them in the back of your mind.
>> Lizzie: You know, here I am recording it. I'm going to try to get to reading more. There you go
>> Brian: There you go. I'm going to send this to you. Every day
>> Lizzie: Like here you go bitch (laughter). Read bitch, read. I think that part of reading and including that in your life is part of a self care routine. It's to find that 10 minutes, that 30 minutes to include in your ritual that you take to just read. Whether it's before bed, for me, I am going to try to do it when I'm cooking breakfast and getting coffee and just eating in the morning. Even if it's 15 minutes, it doesn't matter how long it takes to finish a book
>> Brian: I have another question
>> Lizzie: Ask away
>> Brian: ... for you uh, goyish, barely-post-equatorial philistines.
>> Lizzie: Wow, that was a lot of really unnecessarily big words. (laughter / clapping). I'm going to call it to you straight because I'm from Arkansas
>> Brian: We'll translate. Oh please, don't put yourself down like that. Self-fulfilling prophecy.
>> Lizzie: I'm not, I'm just saying there's a time and place to write...
>> Brian: That was a purposeful use of $10 words. So how do you guys view the literary scene around here? Do you even view it? Is it even seen?
>> Sean: I would say, one of the things that a lot of people don't really realize about Arkansas, and the south in general, is that it's hard to have a literary scene when you have a literacy problem as opposed to a literary problem.
>> Lizzie: Yes
>> Sean: If you talk about the rural areas, there's actual literacy issues. There's actual issues with education. We have schools closing. We have things like that
>> Brian: Are these public schools or are they charter schools?
>> Sean: Oh absolutely
>> Lizzie: We have some public schools...
>> Sean: We have some public schools closing. We have consolidations, especially in rural areas.
>> Lizzie: Yeah, some public schools just stay around and have to consolidate
>> Sean: One of the schools that I went to growing up had funding cut and doesn't exist anymore.
>> Brian: It's interesting you guys say that because Maria has this deaf friend, Ricky, that we saw at the bar last night. He's like 60 or something, I thought he was much younger. Maria is Katie's best friend, by the way. Oh, she'll be on the podcast
>> Lizzie: So Ricky
>> Brian: But anyway, Ricky. He's hardcore ASL which is different than...
>> Lizzie: Yes, I saw your post last night
>> Brian: Yeah, right... which is different from sign English. Sometimes you'll get more in the urban areas, I want to say it is because maybe there is a little bit more literacy. I don't know if that's very accurate though, I'm a little hesitant to say that.
>> Sean: Yeah
>> Brian: But he was very hardcore ASL. He was talking to us about being able to recognize that and being able to communicate with people that are more hardcore ASL. Because what you guys were just talking about, the literacy problem, when you go into the deaf population, you multiply that by however much. It's hard
>> Sean: Yes, absolutely. We do have a fantastic school for the deaf here locally who does everything they can. But they don't have enough funding. Their non-profits don't get the support that they deserve. We are actually working with the Arkansas School for the Deaf.
>> Brian: Oh cool
>> Sean: The Arkansas School for the Deaf Foundation, they're fantastic people. Stacy and Kevin are there that we are working with.
>> Brian: What are you guys doing for them?
>> Sean: We are doing their new logo
>> Lizzie: Yeah, we are doing some marketing material
>> Sean: We are doing several mailers.
>> Brian: Oh cool. Are you guys doing that pro bono or are they contracting?
>> Sean: No
>> Brian: That's super cool
>> Lizzie: So we are contracting with them but we offer a 50% discount to all non-profits but very specifically we cater to and give our first slots of our time to those that focus on literacy for children or any educational program for children
>> Brian: Wow, that's awesome
>> Lizzie: Because our state is so underfunded in those areas. And we actually just elected our first African American mayor in Little Rock
>> Brian: That's a big deal
>> Lizzie: He has a lot...
>> Sean: Let's finish up the school thing real quick. So the deaf community, and they do everything that they can. So it's interesting because people who love Arkansas and want to see Arkansas grow, recognize that there are those problems, they're everywhere. It was just like what I was saying with small businesses, you can feel a weight or something that's pulling you down. Whether it's stagnation keeping you from new and fresh ideas or new and fresh things. It's the same thing in almost every aspect of Arkansas, whether it's literacy, there's foundational issues holding us back and we can't go in there and fix everything. We are just trying to do what we can
>> Lizzie: Yeah
>> Brian: Yeah
>> Sean: So back to what we were talking about
>> Brian: I think it's a deaf thing that was compounded by an Arkansas thing.
>> Sean: Yeah, absolutely. Education has been second-rate here as far as funding
>> Brian: If you go to DC where I am from. Basically, my parents live in DC now and that's where all of their friends lived. It's a different world in deaf culture up there.
>> Sean: Is that where the American School for the Deaf? Where's the American School for the Deaf?
>> Brian: Is that Gallaudet?
>> Lizzie: No, there's the American... Gallaudet University
>> Sean: That there's actually an American School for the Deaf, isn't there?
>> Brian: A college?
>> Lizzie: It's a K-12.
>> Sean: It's a residential, why can't I think of the word?
>> Lizzie: We learned about them while doing this work for ASTS.
>> Brian: That's awesome though. And I think it's way cooler that they gave you a contract too. Like it wasn't them just looking for a handout. They should be legitimizing themselves too, that's good
>> Sean: And that's one of the things that we talked about with them and what they talked about with us. They want to contribute to Arkansas locally and they think the change can come... if people aren't going to help lift us up then we can lift ourselves up. And so working with other businesses and working with affordable price ranges is something we are trying to do and something they are trying to do as well.
>> Lizzie: Yes, and actually Stacy, who is one of the folks that we are working with over there, she mentioned that one of the things that they are looking for is "oh wouldn't be cool to work with someone locally." I think that goes to not only show what local-to-local can do but also from any educator standpoint... turn to your next door neighbor. It doesn't need to be some mountain to climb
>> Brian: Did you guys win the bid, do you think not purely based on the price or based on what you proposed?
>> Sean: It was probably both
>> Lizzie: It was both, yeah.
>> Brian: I asked that from personal experience because I work for my dad's sign language interpreting company. He was the first deaf owner of a sign language interpreting company ever which was ridiculous considering...
>> Sean: Oh really?
>> Lizzie: Wow
>> Sean: Wow, that's funny. You would think...
>> Brian: Because none of these companies knew what the fuck they were doing. They didn't. They had no idea
>> Lizzie: That's insane
>> Brian: And everyone... interpreting services were in the toilet despite the fact that there were ADA laws for a couple days. I know that when we bid on things, especially the government, it's like "what's the lowest price?"
>> Lizzie: Yes. So part of, what's the fortunate part for us is that while we are trying to start our small business, I work full time for a non-profit. So fortunately for us working for folks over there, I got to understand their needs a little bit and understand first what they can afford. I am aware of what non-profits go through specifically in terms of funding. They have a lot of hoops to jump through. So when we work with them, we offer that discount regardless, but of course we know that one, it's the bid, but not only that we offer such a good discount but that we have had such a good history with the deaf community. One of my best friends is deaf. And Sean is starting to learn some ASL and is starting to get to know that community.
>> Brian: But yeah, speaking of which, because your friend Shelby... she became deaf when she was 10, or something like that? So then she learned ASL?
>> Lizzie: Yes, she is 100% deaf now. She has two cochlear implants
>> Brian: Did she have those the last time I saw her?
>> Sean: Yeah, she did.
>> Lizzie: Uh, yes. She did, sorry, time has really transported me since I graduated college. I don't really understand what year it is or when things happened.
>> Brian: Oh trust me, it only gets worse (chuckles)
>> Lizzie: So she was really a big part and I also studied 4 years of ASL in college. So I got to go to a lot of community events. That's part of what the experience is in college, is that you go and immerse yourself in that culture. So sitting down with people at church functions and coffee social type situations to try and sign with people when they know you can't sign at all. And you can barely understand how to sign a fruit, as much as how to have an actual conversation. They're just so kind and just welcoming you in. Working with ASTF has been wonderful in getting to know that stuff and bringing that to the table which has made it a unique bid to have.
>> Sean: They're also so dedicated too, right? And I think that's what's great about non-profits. And you were asking about what made us the bid, whether it was price or quality. We picked that price because it's a deal we want to offer but it's also an incentive. We think we have a product that is really going to help people. And a service that is really going to help people. And so we want these people that do more than just have a business, that they contribute to society as a whole.
And to the parts of society that we care about. So we want them to come to us. We want them to have almost no choice but to work with us if they have 4 bids because ours is going to be drastically lower. Because not only are we not going to pay ourselves up the wazoo to pay for a big office or pay for whatever. We're also going to give you a discount because we know that you're going to get further with us than you are with someone else for less money. And so that's just by design. And also for non-profits it's doubly true because nobody can stretch a dollar like some of these non-profits. They get so little funding and so little contribution. You give some people $100 out here, they can make some things happen that you couldn't believe. Let alone thousands and thousands
>> Brian: I know that. Since I have been down here, I have been amazed at how cheap everything is
>> Sean: Exactly. These people are so dedicated, they'll pay themselves $8 an hour and use the rest for whatever they can for this cause that they are so dedicated to. And so that's why we want to make these offers to these people because they can use it and they honestly need a little bit of help sometimes. So hopefully we can try to help
>> Brian: I will say right now, just because we were talking about deafness, we do this for us. We do transcripts for every episode.
>> Lizzie: Oh that's awesome
>> Brian: So anyone who is listening, if you have deaf friends, let them know (laughs)
>> Lizzie: That's so funny that you mention that because one of the things that Shelby and I bitch about the most is the closed captions on anything in the world
>> Brian: So bad. I started to go through all the podcasts and for my dad's company, I was thinking of reaching out to all these people. I'm starting big, I'm trying to go out to Joe Rogan (laughter) right now. Because he doesn't have captioning on it. And I'm like, there's a lot of deaf people in the world. There's a big audience to capture.
>> Sean: And especially, they have a lot of money to blow.
>> Brian: Exactly, that's pennies to them. Not even, it's micro... units (laughter).
>> Lizzie: And nowadays, especially with the technology we have that can do it for you. It's not even...
>> Brian: That's the thing. You know, I'll tell you...
>> Sean: Oh, like dragon transcription?
>> Lizzie: Oh, I know it's not perfect but it saves you a lot of work if it transcribes it beforehand.
>> Brian: You know what the problem is? It actually works pretty well. The big problem is you can't tell who is speaking
>> Lizzie: Oh really? Oh true.
>> Sean: Oh that's true.
>> Brian: And if you're actually deaf and you're looking at the captioning, they don't have name tags or dialog tags...
>> Lizzie: Yeah, they don't.
>> Brian: So you're just looking at it and you're like "I don't know where" and there's not even punctuation or anything and I am just like "damn man"
>> Lizzie: But I think that's when you work with technology. You let the machine transcribe for you and then you go back in and say "here is who said this" and then nowadays AI technology and crazy shit like that is getting so advanced that you can train it to understand who the people in the video are.
>> Brian: Oh yeah, eventually, definitely.
>> Lizzie: But that's what I'm saying, we are in an age today where this should not even be an issue whatsoever and it's hilarious to me that it is.
>> Brian: Yeah, I agree
>> Sean: I mean it's a language barrier, right? I was talking with Katie about it, and I have talked to Lizzie about it too. Communities are built on communication and if you can't communicate...
>> Brian: Yeah, of course. You don't build anything
>> Sean: ...then you don't really have a community
>> Brian: Yeah
>> Sean: And so it's hard for that to actually happen if you can't even have a brief conversation about the weather with someone or whatever.
>> Lizzie: It's so isolating.
>> Brian: Right, right. Animal Riot, that's our main goal, literally. If you're going into the publishing industry trying to make money or trying to make a buck then you're an idiot.
>> Sean: Yeah
>> Brian: It's like my uh... this is actually ironic because Garth Hallberg, one of my professors at Sarah Lawrence, actually got like a 2 million dollar advance on his last book.
>> Lizzie: Jesus
>> Brian: His first book, his debut book. He straight up told us if you are trying to make money as a writer then you have to reexamine your values... well not even that, your motives. Make a 15 minute youtube video to get you famous, that's a better idea.
>> Sean: Yeah, for sure. There's easier ways
>> Brian: We are in this to put good shit out there. It wouldn't make any sense to start a small press if not to reach out to people and then try and get everyone to start reading stuff that we think is good, and put out stuff that we think is good. And you're absolutely right, that involves communication, like how are we going to do that. Alright so I'll say this one thing because we were talking about communities and building communities
>> Sean: Yeah
>> Brian: I don't know if you guys have heard but Katie's been talking to Mariah and Drew, right? They're going to do it together? Drew is someone we are going to talk to tomorrow and he's going to be a part of all of this. We are going to have a little girl talk mashup of all of this shit. Basically we are going to start a salon down here. We're not exactly sure what it's going to be, I mean it's going to be a reading series type thing but we might have other artforms involved. But it's going to be together the literary types and the artistic types
>> Lizzie: Well you know, if you need a poster
>> Brian: Oh yeah, there you go. That's true, that's true.
>> Sean: Oh yeah, we need to do one for the cities. So you can get one where you can sub out the name
>> Brian: Little Rock is one of three cities we are going to do it in. It's going to be Little Rock, Seattle, and Baltimore - are the other three cities. In a little different form, you know?
>> Lizzie: So you're having Animal Riot salons? Animal Riot salons... hmmm
>> Brian: Little Rock is going to be a salon. But we could do something similar but different in Seattle, we aren't totally sure.
>> Lizzie: So what do you think is, they're all in different cities, so is your approach going to be different in each city?
>> Brian: Probably, yeah. Katie's nodding her head
>> Sean: What's the level of... is it going to be locally managed?
>> Brian: Yes, every city is going to have their own people that are living there. Right now we only have Kyle Marshall for Seattle. I don't know if he's going to have a partner out there. But it's definitely going to cater to the city that we are in. So one of the ideas that I have that I was hoping to come together, for example, this is just to have an analog... I was hoping that Albany would come together because I know this guy who ran for assembly out there, and he didn't win but I like him a lot. He's a progressive dude. I thought it would be cool to have a politically bent reading series up there and ultimately it fell through. I haven't heard back from him. We're going to try to just tailor to what's going on in those parts.
>> Sean: I was going to say because those are three very different cities. New York and Seattle are very different and obviously Little Rock is different from those.
>> Brian: Well New York and Seattle are far more similar than Little Rock
>> Lizzie: Yeah I was going to say Little Rock is the outlier
>> Brian: Even Baltimore. Little Rock and Baltimore are more similar, you know
>> Sean: That's why I liked Baltimore a lot when I was there. I was like, this is just a big ass Little Rock. I know exactly where I am (laughter)
>> Brian: That was the thing that surprised me about Little Rock the most, was how small this place is
>> Lizzie: Yes
>> Brian: This is like a suburb. This is just a big suburb, you know?
>> Sean: It's like uh, shit, what's the name that starts with the 'E'? It's got a goofy name. Goddamn I can't remember anything about Baltimore
>> Brian: Elksburg?
>> Sean: Yes, thank god. Oh my God, I could not remember that name.
>> Brian: That's not a big town, though
>> Sean: No it's not
>> Brian: Yeah it's weird that you... oh Elkridge. Elkridge?
>> Sean: No, that's not it. Eldersburg!
>> Brian: Eldersburg? I don't know.
>> Sean: Fuck whatever (laughter)
>> Lizzie: Ok, so I'm going to interrupt. (laughter)
>> Brian: Yeah, go ahead. Sorry
>> Sean: It's the whiskey.
>> Lizzie: I know it's the whiskey
>> Sean: (mocking) It's always the whiskey with you (laughter)
>> Lizzie: Stop. That sounds terrible. What do you think the focus at first it's going to be for your Little Rock salon. I'm interested to know what your topic... or for your reading series, do you have a topic in mind? Is this monthly, do you do a topic for each month?
>> Brian: Nope
>> Lizzie: Tell me more about it
>> Brian: For New York it's very... honestly New York is more driven by the fact that it's the epicenter of literature. Like I want to say of the world
>> Sean: Yeah
>> Brian: But I think that sounds a little ethnocentric.
>> Sean: I couldn't tell you
>> Lizzie: You probably feel that more especially that you live there
>> Brian: Yeah, of course. But like it kind of is in a way (laughs)
>> Sean: I can imagine living in New York, having been there and knowing you guys and I have known others there, there's so much going on in New York. It's amazing
>> Brian: Yeah, and this isn't braggadocio.
>> Sean: No, no, no.
>> Lizzie: No, no, no. It's the culture
>> Brian: It's literally the fact that I moved there for this. It's not like... I wasn't born there. I went there for this
>> Sean: It's like Hollywood for books
>> Brian: (chuckles) Kind of. It's true, it's true. In New York, it's different because Animal Riot has become, I don't know if we can say household name, but it's become well-known...
>> Lizzie: In the literary community?
>> Brian: ... in the literary scene. Exactly, in the literary community.
>> Sean: That's awesome.
>> Brian: Amongst the literati
>> Sean: Amongst the literati? Is that really what it is?
>> Brian: Which you might think is a made up word based on illuminati
>> Lizzie: I won't believe for a second that that's not real. If people call themselves a part of the literati...
>> Brian: Katie is talking about how we want to break the literati down.
>> Lizzie: Oh, I see
>> Brian: To put everyone on an even playing field. It's actually true, it kind of is
>> Sean: I mean there's a glass ceiling everywhere
>> Brian: Right, right. You just appropriated that, didn't you? (laughs) The New York literati would get down your throat on that (laughs)
>> Lizzie: I will say though... I think Little Rock is a great city to break up the literati because we do have an education and literacy problem in the first place. So getting boots on the ground and getting the idea on the ground is the first thing. But to break up the "literati", no better place than the capital of a good ol' southern state to do that
>> Sean: That's true
>> Brian: I agree, I agree.
>> Lizzie: Yeah, and low competition. The Animal Riot literary salon... is that right? The Animal Riot salon?
>> Brian: Artist salon, literary salon. We haven't come up with...
>> Lizzie: Ok artist salon. Ok I want to get it right for the sound bite. Animal Riot artist salon
>> Brian: We haven't really consecrated it yet.
>> Sean: The Little Rock chapter
>> Lizzie: So the Animal Riot artist salon will be an opportunity for people to show their writing and all other sorts of artistic experiences, including possibly graphic design. Via could be there to show some cool stuff. To show some random art that we have been putting together.
>> Brian: Absolutely, I couldn't have said it better myself.
>> Lizzie: But, I think if you're trying to break up the literati from... is that right, literati? (laughter) It sounds like Little Rock and I'm confused
>> Brian: We're going to get death threats
>> Sean: Literati? Can't say it too much
>> Lizzie: I will say that I think Little Rock is a great place to break that up because we do have people here that are artistic and creative and have something to offer on the table
>> Brian: Culturism. I feel like culturism is a word
>> Lizzie: We do have culture here and people don't think so.
>> Brian: I think that New York is a very "superior" place. I do think people go there because they think they're better than everyone else. And I know if you're from there, you think you're better than everyone else
>> Sean: Yeah, that's true
>> Lizzie: Well people go there to discover themselves.
>> Sean: Some people move there because they think we're the better people, for sure. I know tons of people that moved to New York and they were always... I mean I don't want to say that they are all assholes (laughter)
>> Brian: You know what? Sean...
>> Sean: But it's people that had bigger goals and bigger dreams and thought that New York was a better place to do it. And they were probably right
>> Brian: Let me tell you, in Hermione's book right now "Neon Daylight", she has a couple of lines about how there is a shitton of these... you'll see this a lot in New York, where there's these people that have these big hopes and dreams that come up but they're just really awkward out-of-towners.
>> Sean: Yeah
>> Brian: They romanticize New York to the point where they make it ostentatious.
>> Lizzie: Yes
>> Brian: And it's embarrassing. She has this one line where this one guy, I think Thomas, "to the five boroughs" he raises his glass. Like what the fuck, what are you saying?
>> Sean: I understand. I get what you mean though. I don't want to say prentention...
>> Brian: Yeah
>> Sean: It's not all putting on air. New York is the biggest city in the country.
>> Brian: You're absolutely right
>> Sean: It's like if you stood next to an elephant, you would be stupid to not have a respect for something that size and that much actual monumental power in motion
>> Brian: And their babies are cute too (chuckles)
>> Sean: It is huge and there is so much shit that's going on. It comes with the side effect where you're just like "get out of your own ass". But it's the same problem everywhere where people get in their echo chamber and their place is the best place. Boston is just as bad as New York, and it's true for almost every city.
>> Brian: And it's the same as you guys sit here and say...
>> Sean: Yeah how beautiful Arkansas is, right
>> Brian: No, just how the red team is the good team here and just how every place has their demons
>> Lizzie: Yeah
>> Brian: It is what it is
>> Sean: I will say, beneath their crusty exterior, almost every New Yorker that I have actually talked to has been a fantastic person
>> Brian: You never got to ask your questions
>> Sean: When I heard the cities that you were doing were Seattle and New York and the salons included Little Rock. And that maybe that would include the DC and Baltimore area. And I know that your novel coming out is based in Seattle just based on the title
>> Brian: Yeah, it's set there.
>> Sean: And so I was curious, have you spent a lot of time in Seattle? I don't know your story, so...
>> Brian: Oh ok
>> Lizzie: Tell us your story Brian
>> Sean: Very briefly because I know we have gone on a long time.
>> Brian: I have to tell another story after the one I wrote?
>> Sean: What are the places that you lived? It has to be longer than 2 years. So you if you went to like Europe...
>> Brian: Well Seattle is the place that I lived in for 2 years. It may have been just under so I don't know if it qualifies
>> Sean: Did it make a super strong impression on you?
>> Brian: It was the coming of age. It was my shitty as little JD Salinger story. Catcher in the Rye. No, seriously, it was
>> Sean: What age was it?
>> Brian: Right after college I went to Seattle and honestly... The big thing was that when I went there, I had no prospects. My friend Jon, who is our third partner in Animal Riot, Jon Kay. The harbinger of all of this, really. After I graduated, he said "do you want to come out here", that was it. And I was like, that sounds pretty cool. And so I go out there and he's making bank at Amazon so he's got this high-rise apartment...
>> Sean: Where was it?
>> Brian: It's a one bedroom in the Denny Triangle which is downtown. It's between downtown and Capitol Hill.
>> Sean: Is that with all the hills and crap?
>> Brian: Well Capitol Hill is literally just a hill. And downtown leads to the Pudget and leads to the coastline
>> Sean: I couldn't remember. I was looking for a shop and I was like "this place is fucking hilly" and I guess I was on Capitol Hill
>> Brian: Oh yeah, that's one of the first things people bitch about when they came to visit. I go out there and literally threw a mattress in the corner of his apartment, and I lived there for a year. And then we got a place on Capitol Hill that I found. And that was it, I had to get a job myself. I had to walk around the city to find a job. I worked at a deli, I worked at Subway for a while, I wrote some shitty articles on TextBroker while I was just writing on the side. I was just broke as fuck, you know?
>> Sean: So we hear the struggle and the tough. So what was it about Seattle that made you love it?
>> Brian: Because it's probably the greatest city in America
>> Sean: Yeah it's pretty cool. It's funny that once you go there because it was probably one of my favorites... I have been 46 or 47 states and I don't know why, everytime I went there I would be like "this place is the fucking bomb. this place is the shit." And I don't really know why. The weather sucks...
>> Brian: Except for the summer. The best summer I have ever experienced
>> Sean: The summer is beautiful. I was in Portland and Edmond off the Pudget. Gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. Anyways, the people aren't even particularly nice, I'm just going to be honest. They have weed now, which is a thing, which is a plus. And every single time I was like "I don't know why but I love this fucking city." I was like "this city is the bomb"
>> Brian: It's amazing
>> Sean: Was there anything particularly that stood out in Seattle and your time there that made you...
>> Brian: Because it's the smartest city. It's no coincidence that Jeff Bezos is from Seattle
>> Sean: Hold on, before we finish, I want to hear one of the words on the list. Pick the word...
>> Brian: Ok so what is this thing where you want to take the Lord's name but like you can't do it because it's...
>> Sean: Oh no. I told you that they were going to have that on there, didn't I?
>> Brian: You were planning, you were literally planning out there
>> Lizzie: Wait, what was it?
>> Sean: It was gosh
>> Lizzie: Oh gosh. Oh Lord
>> Brian: Oh that was one of them actually but not what I thought you were going to say
>> Sean: What did you think? GD? Gosh? Dangit?
>> Brian: That was it but there was another you were doing
>> Lizzie: Hold on, pick the best one that you thought that we would say
>> Brian: Mylanta
>> Lizzie: Oh I say Mylanta
>> Sean: You only say it when you're at work.
>> Brian: Pig sooie. There it is, drink (laughter)
>> Sean: So we're going to make you... do you know how to call the hogs?
>> Brian: No, no, no. I don't know how to do it
>> Sean: So we need to give him research because I want some help on calling the hogs and because you were born south of the mason dixon you can actually do it. If you were born north of it...
>> Brian: You can't do it. You get cancer
>> Sean: You start coughing. I saw some guy in Nebraska, he was like *cough, cough* like he had the black lung. It was nuts
>> Lizzie: Alright, are you ready to call the hogs?
>> Sean: No
>> Brian: Let's do it
>> Sean: He doesn't know how. You have to tell him how. (laughter)
>> Lizzie: Boys!
>> Sean: Ok I'm sorry
>> Lizzie: God, shut the fuck up (laughter)
>> Brian: Ok, ok
>> Lizzie: So in order to call the hogs according to a girl who has lived in Arkansas her entire life. I have no real authority on the matter, so I just want to state that publically. You start with your arms down low by your sides
>> Brian: Wow this is a lot more physical than I was expecting
>> Lizzie: and you standing up in this, ok? So we are just going to go physical movement while you're saying "woooooo" (chuckles) are sticking your arms down straight and lifting them slowly into the air as if one was raising the roof, so to speak. So you lift them straight up and with your hands you do jazz hands as you lift them into the air. Katie's going to be posting...
>> Brian: Oh Lizzie was a cheerleader by the way. I saw the picture on Gangie's refrigerator.
>> Lizzie: I was on the palm squad. I was not a cheerleader. They are different. I was a dancer. They were different. (laughter) So you start with your arms down by your side and you slowly...
(laughter)
... so then what you do is go... you call the hogs. Are you ready babe? I don't want to do it alone
>> Sean: Just look it up on your phone
(everyone joins in) Pig Sooie x3. Razorbacks!
>> Lizzie: And that's it. That's calling the hogs
>> Sean: That's it. We aren't very creative
>> Brian: That's ok, Maryland is just M-A-R-Y-L-A-N-D will win! (laughter)
>> Lizzie: Maryland knows how to spell their own name. Congratulations (laughter)
>> Brian: Shut up! Oh yeah, when you knock something over? What...
>> Lizzie: Don't say anything
>> Sean: When you what?
>> Brian: When you knock something over? It dun what over?
>> Sean: Fell? (laughter)
>> Brian: Goddamn, that's my definition
>> Lizzie: I know, I know, I know. I will say if something falls over that it has tumpt over
>> Brian: Ohhhhh
>> Sean: Wow, that's really southern. Jesus
>> Brian: That's the closer
(everyone drinks)
>> Brian: Who's idea was that?
(groans)
>> Sean: Lizzie!
(groans and laughter)
---- Outro -----
>> Brian: This episode is brought to you by Animal Riot featuring Lizzie and Sean Casteel and myself. And is produced by Katie Rainey without whom we would be three of Shakespeare's thousand monkeys banging on the typewriter
(outro music)